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[Markintosh]

Hello gang!

I have had a battery bombed Lisa 2/5 since June 2023. I just bought another Lisa2 I thought was a 2/10 bc the drive cage is from a 2/10.

HOWEVER: It seems my Computer is a 2/5. The 2/10 card cage is not compatible as the 2/5 edge connectors in the body have staggered depths, & the 2/10 seems to have evenly spaced connectors. 

The staggered connector is part of the Drive Cage/Power Switch harness.

I want to complete this unit as a 2/10. Are there any other differences in front of the 2/5's "firewall", such as the video card, that will prevent me from using the 2/10 card cage in this unit?


Thank you in advance!!


-Mark

[sigma7]

I want to complete this unit as a 2/10. Are there any other differences in front of the 2/5's "firewall", such as the video card, that will prevent me from using the 2/10 card cage in this unit?

Chassis differences between the 2/5 and 2/10

Chassis 60 pin card edge connector

• 2/5: mounted directly to the chassis. This results in the two card edge connectors of the 2/5 motherboard to be offset.
  
• 2/10: mounted on standoffs, making it more recessed in the chassis. This results in the two card edge connectors of the 2/10 motherboard to be aligned.
  

Chassis 60 conductor ribbon cable

• 2/5: Terminates in two 26 pin socket connectors (originally for two Twiggy drives, the 2/5 drive cage uses the Lite Adapter to convert one of the 26 pin sockets to the 20 pin cable used by the 3.5" drive), and one 10 pin socket for the power button/keyboard jack
  
• 2/10: Terminates in one 26 pin socket connector (the internal parallel port), one 20 pin socket connector (for a 3.5" floppy) and one 10 pin socket for the power button/keyboard jack
  

Chassis wiring harness

• 2/5: has a 3 pin socket, not used by anything that we know of
  
• 2/10: has an 8 pin socket that provides power to a Widget
  

Chassis sheet metal (revised -- this cutout may not be a sign of a 2/10 or 2/5)

• There is a cutout between the drive cage area and the card cage area aligned with a slot 3 expansion card. The cutout appears to be suitable for a 60 pin card edge connector; typically unused except for eg. routing a SCSI cable for an internal drive.
  

Some of the things that are the same:

• Video Board
  
• CRT, flyback transformer
  
• power switch & keyboard jack assembly
  
• speaker and front panel safety interlock
  
• card edge connectors for the power supply and the motherboard
  
• plastic panels, aside from the dual Twiggy front panel
  

So, to convert a 2/5 chassis for use with a 2/10 motherboard:

• remount the 60 pin card edge connector on standoffs.
  
• If you wish to use a floppy drive, you will need to change / alter / adapt the chassis ribbon cable. It is possible to split off 20 conductors and crimp on the 2/10 specific floppy connector.
  If you modify the cable, it is wise to label it as mismatching the internal drive cable(s) and motherboard can result in damage.
  
• If you wish to install a Widget, you will need to install an 8 pin Widget power connector.
  

edit: I observe the expansion slot 3 connector cutout is not on all 2/10 chassis, so perhaps I had it backwards, or perhaps it is unpredictable which chassis have it.
Emphasised that mods to the ribbon cable should be labelled.

[Markintosh]

 


sigma7-

This is EXACTLY the info I needed! Thank you!

I had hoped I could simply use stand offs to set the edge connector further forward-thank you for confirming!

Great info on the ribbon cables as well.


Can you confirm another thing?: Did the factory Apple 2/10's come with 400k or 800k floppies? I'm staring to think that only the Sun Remarking ones had 800's.


I know I'll have a few more questions as I modify my ribbon cable .

Thanks again,


-Mark

[sigma7]

Did the factory Apple 2/10's come with 400k or 800k floppies?

All of the Lisa 2s from Apple shipped with Sony 400k 3.5" drives.

The 800k upgrade/modification was developed (by Apple for Sun Remarketing IIRC) after Apple stopped selling Lisas. SR was selling the upgrade as the 800k ROM with a Chinon 800k drive. The 800k ROM also works with Sony 800k drives.

Recall that the SR 2/10 800k ROM has a bug that prevents successfully re-initializing a 3.5" floppy. That bug is fixed in the 400k/800k "universal" ROM posted in the files section: Lisa I/O Board ROMs

[Markintosh]

Oh-fantastic!

I plan to make this unit into a 2/10 without the screen updates for Mac compatibility.

Without any other S.R. updates, can the ROM you spoke of be used in my 2/10 setup with an 800k?

[sigma7]

I plan to make this unit into a 2/10 without the screen updates for Mac compatibility.

Without any other S.R. updates, can the ROM you spoke of be used in my 2/10 setup with an 800k?

Yes, the "XLSSDSM6" I/O Board ROM is for use with either a 400k or 800k drive on a 2/10, and the cabling is the same, but the 400k and 800k drives are different heights so mounting them in the drive cage to align with the slot in the front panel is different.

For both the Lisa 2/10 aka XL and 2/5:

The square pixel screen modification is completely separate from the I/O Board ROM & 3.5" floppy drive options (aside from not being able to combine square pixels and Twiggies with any available operating environment, except BLU maybe?)

Also, MacWorks can be used with or without the square pixel modification (There are variants of MacWorks XL specific to each screen configuration, while MW+/II are universal), and I suspect MW+/II varieties all operate ok with either 400k or 800k floppy drives. MacWorks XL up to 3.0 predate the 800k drive; I don't recall if they work with it 100% or not. Other operating environments (LOS, Workshop, *nix) don't support the square pixel configuration (at least until LOS source can be recompiled).

[Markintosh]

Good to know-thank you!

I have a custom bracket for an 800k drive if I go that route. I believe I also have a spare 400k drive I can use as an option.



I do not have a Widget drive. I'm not sure I want to deal with them, as I've think I've heard they can be troublesome.

Are there any solid state alternatives to the Widget, ie: the TashTiny?

[sigma7]

I do not have a Widget drive. I'm not sure I want to deal with them, as I've think I've heard they can be troublesome.

Are there any solid state alternatives to the Widget, ie: the TashTiny?

For actual use (as opposed to a collection), I think most would agree that you don't want a real Apple Widget or Apple ProFile due to their age.

There are multiple alternatives for a modern replacement for the Widget; searching for "Apple ProFile Emulator" should find those (although a ProFile and Widget are not literally the same, a ProFile emulator is an appropriate substitute), some are DIY, some can be purchased assembled and tested. The parallel port ProFile hard disk as used by the Apple ][ and Apple /// are the same as the one used by the Lisa.

Sorry, I don't know what a TashTiny is... someone else?

[sigma7]

... I'll have a few more questions as I modify my ribbon cable

This might (or might not) be helpful: Chassis Ribbon Cable