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Author Topic: Basic 3.0  (Read 33152 times)

compu_85

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Basic 3.0
« on: September 29, 2021, 01:23:58 pm »
I was reminded of BASIC for the Workshop... I see version 2.0 is around, has version 3 been archived?

I assume that installing BASIC 2.0 on top of workshop 3 would result in versioning issues.

Thanks,

-J
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rayarachelian

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    • LisaEm
Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2021, 12:06:12 pm »
Did Apple ever release it?

I remember MSFT successfully killed basic for the Mac ( https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt ) so they could push theirs, they had an expiring Apple II basic contract that they held hostage, but not sure if that also included a 3.0 Basic Plus version for the Lisa.

Would certainly love to see it.

For those interested, you can find MacBasic here:

 * http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macbasic-10
 * http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/vintage-macbasic-books
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compu_85

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Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2021, 03:54:08 pm »
The "Good Things to Know About Lisa" document mentions how to install 3.0, so I assume it exists.

Code: [Select]
Released products compatible with Lisa 7/7:
Software: By: Compatible with: Status:
Lisa Workshop Apple Computer *OS 3.0, 3.1 Released
Brock Keystroke Brock SW Products OS 3.0, 3.1
Relational Database Released
BPI Accounting BPI Systems *WS 2.0, 3.0, 3.1
General Ledger Released
Accounts Receivable Released
Accounts Payable Released
Payroll Released
Desktop Calendar Videx OS 3.0, 3.1 Released
BASIC Pterodactyl SW WS 3.0,3.1 Released
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rayarachelian

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    • LisaEm
Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2021, 04:12:01 pm »
Hmm, you're right, it does mention BASIC Workshop 3.0 on section 50. (Not sure how that's different from BASIC Plus 2.0 mentioned in section 44, PDF page 74 - if it's a new version of the same software, or something else entirely.) It also mentions this other Petrodactyl BASIC (section 30, PDF page 59), which seems to be an IBM GWBASIC/MSBASIC compiler for the Lisa:
I vaguely remember seeing a Petrydactyl Basic ad being sold on ebay as part of some newsletter, possibly Signal 17, a year or two ago, but the price was too high to buy it and I wasn't all that curious about it.

 * http://www.macmothership.com/lisacontent/signal/Signal17_October1984.html
Quote
IBM PC BASIC compiler for the Lisa, from Pterodactyl Software, Box 538, Fairfax, CA 94930.
* https://guidebookgallery.org/articles/thelisa2applesablestcomputer
Quote
Software development only  Lisa 2 and Macintosh software development done by Apple so far have taken place entirely on Lisa, and the tool development by Apple has been extensive. Pascal Workshop is the host environment for all development work, and there are four separate development tools currently available. QuickPort is used to move conventional applications into the Office System. Macintosh Supplement is used to develop Macintosh software. The Toolkit is an unsupported system used to develop fully integrated applications for the Office System. Pterodactyl Software supplies an IBM BASIC Compiler with utilities that is used to convert BASIC programs written for the IBM PC for use on Lisa.

Edit: PDF page 117, section "83 Lisa: Copy-protected Tools" has this to say:

Quote
Files that are protected by this scheme will have the file attribute P when
listed by the Workshop. This attribute cannot be changed.
Protected Lisa software distributed by Apple includes:

- All Lisa tools, except for LisaWrite and LisaProject 3.1. (Stationary
pads, Office System diskettes and LisaGuide are not protected.)
- Pascal 1.0 and 2.0: PASCAL.OBJ, CODE.OBJ and EDITOR.OBJ are protected.
(Pascal 3.0 is not protected.)
- COBOL 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0: overlay files are protected, as well as
EDITOR.OBJ.
- BASIC-PLUS 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0: BASIC.OBJ and EDITOR.OBJ are protected.

That implies BASIC 3.0 is in the same lineage as BASIC-PLUS. So that's good to know. (No worries about the copy bit anymore, ofc.)


So now we're on the hunt for two more BASICs.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 04:19:20 pm by rayarachelian »
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rayarachelian

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    • LisaEm
Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2021, 04:41:15 pm »
Found it, it's here: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/applelisa/ it's in Apple Lisa Software - Disk Images_vol_3.zip and it seems it comes from our good friend David T. Craig. :)

Code: [Select]
File size:     419284
Filename:      LisaBASIC.image
Sectors:       800
Tag size each: 12
Sec size each: 512
Sector bytes:  409600
Tag bytes:     9600
Image Type:    1 (0=twig, 1=sony400k, 2=sony800k)
Tagstart @     409684
Sectorstart @  84
Maxtrack:      80
Maxsec/track:  15
Max heads:     1
Calc DataChks: a62fa8fa
Img DataChks:  a62fa8fa
Calc TagChks:  ba56ad1f
Calc TagChk0:  ba62d7df
Img TagChks:   ba56ad1f
Sorting tags
Found allocation bitmap block at sector #001d(29)
initializing directory names
MDDF (Superblock) found at sector #001c(  28) fsversion:11
MDDF (Superblock) found at sector #012a( 298) fsversion:11

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MDDF Volume Name: "New Mac Tools"
Version 0x11: Hierarchial FS with B-Tree catalog Spring Release - 7/7
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
lisafsh> dir

Extent   File Name                           Date Created     Date Modified    Last Access Date        filesizes        attr DRM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0005    BASIC.OBJ                            1984.09.26-13:14 1984.09.26-13:15 1993.05.25-16:46       91136      91136                   
0006    BASIC.OBJ COPY                       1984.09.26-13:14 1984.09.26-13:15 1993.05.25-16:46       91136      91136                   
0008    InstallBASICPHRASE                   1984.10.16-06:58 1984.10.16-06:58 1992.10.06-15:52       17832      17920   C               
0018    system.shell                         1984.10.16-06:50 1984.10.16-06:51 1992.10.06-15:45       17408      17408                   
0009    {!CATALOG}                           1992.10.06-16:07 1992.10.21-18:08 1992.10.21-18:08        2560       2560                   
0007    {!CATALOG}$R                         1992.10.06-16:07 1992.10.06-16:07 1992.10.06-16:07         512        512                   
0025    {D1001T1}                            1992.10.07-07:41 1992.10.07-07:44 1992.10.21-18:08       28160      28160                   
        (0000) +->DocumentName: Lisa BASIC Info
0026    {D1001T1}.Figures                    1992.10.07-07:41 1992.10.07-07:44 1992.10.21-18:08        3292       3584                   
000d    {D2003T1}                            1992.10.07-06:34 1992.10.07-06:37 1992.10.07-06:37       45056      45056                   
        (0000) +->DocumentName: Lisa Pascal Info
000e    {D2003T1}.Figures                    1992.10.07-06:34 1992.10.07-06:37 1992.10.07-06:37        3292       3584                   
000f    {D2004T1}                            1992.10.07-07:53 1992.10.07-07:53 1992.10.07-07:53        6144       6144                   
        (0000) +->DocumentName: Lisa Linker Info
0010    {D2004T1}.Figures                    1992.10.07-07:53 1992.10.07-07:53 1992.10.07-07:53        3302       3584                   
0024    {F7}                                 1992.10.07-07:38 1969.01.18-22:14 1992.10.07-07:38           0          0                   
        (0000) +->DocumentName: Empty Folders

lisafsh>

The Info file contains: (extracted with lisafsh-tool, then ran strings on it)
Code: [Select]
INTRODUCTION
This document contains some technical information relating to the Apple Lisa personal computer BASIC language.  This information is provided as a record of a small part of the Lisa's technical materials for those
who have an interest in this stuff.  The author of this document is not associated with Apple Computer and prepared this material just for the fun of it.
 + ,!
LISA BASIC DISK CATALOG
Filename                     Size Psize   Last-Mod-Date   Creation-Date  Attr
--------                     ---- -----   -------------   -------------  ----
BASIC.OBJ                   91136   178  09/26/84-17:15  09/26/84-17:14
InstallBASICPHRASE          17832    35  10/16/84-10:58  10/16/84-10:58  C
system.shell                17408    34  10/16/84-10:51  10/16/84-10:50
247 total blocks for files listed
25 blocks :
of OS overhead for volume and files listed
512 blocks free out of 772
SAMPLE LISA BASIC PROGRAM EXECUTION
Welcome to BASIC for the Lisa                  Release 3.0  6/9/84
 (c) 1982 SVS, Inc.   (c) 1983, 1984 Apple Computer, Inc.
Ready
10 print "hello world"
20 end
list
Program NONAME

Only issue is that BASIC Plus 2.0 is 4 disks, this is a single disk in the wild, so might be missing a bunch of stuff? Maybe it can be installed on top of BASIC Plus 2.0?

And next, we'll need to find Pterodactyl BASIC.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 04:58:39 pm by rayarachelian »
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compu_85

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Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2021, 11:23:17 am »
Basic 2.0 is a bootable installer which includes the whole workshop environment.

Looks like Basic 3.0 is just the files for Basic. I copied basic.obj into my system with Workshop 3.0, and that got the Basic option in the menu working!

I also tried adding it as a selection in the Environments window (copy basic.obj to shell.Basic). It works too, though it doesn't clear the screen first.

To exit from Basic the command is bye. Apple . is the break key.
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rayarachelian

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    • LisaEm
Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2021, 12:17:28 pm »
neat! Is there a CLS or CLEAR command in this BASIC?
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You don't know what it's like, you don't have a clue, if you did you'd find yourselves doing the same thing, too, Writing the code, Writing the code

compu_85

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Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2021, 01:24:10 pm »
Pressing the clear key on the keyboard might work. It's easy enough to just go into the Workshop and press B, though :)
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stepleton

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Re: Basic 3.0
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2021, 02:23:38 pm »
I was going to suggest POKEing a bunch of $00s directly into video memory, but this BASIC doesn't even have POKE, and PEEK is a "reserved inoperative keyword"!
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