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Author Topic: M0130  (Read 8402 times)

blusnowkitty

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Re: M0130
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2023, 12:02:55 pm »

And I use a Willem Programmer because I have no shortage of PCs with real parallel ports. I think just about any programmer made in the last 40 years should be able to program a 2716/2732; they only made a few trillion of those chips...
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You haven't lived until you've heard the sound of a Sony 400k drive.

paule

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Re: M0130
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2023, 02:56:47 am »

My understanding is that there is one subtle difference between the Lisa 400K drive and the Mac 400K drive. That is the behavior on system reset (IIRC) when the Lisa drive will eject any disk in the drive and the Mac 400K drive won't. I'm trying to remember where I found that information...
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andrew

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Re: M0130
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2023, 08:52:57 am »

A couple questions:

Instead of wiping the working ROM that I have (because I've never actually done this before), can I buy and flash a blank chip instead? If so, is there a part number I can google for the ROM chip?

Also, I picked up an 800K drive cage but there isn't enough clearance between it and my vertically mounted X-Profile. Is there a supported way to install it horizontally like the original widget drive? I don't think the LED will be aligned properly, but I'm not terribly concerned about that.
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blusnowkitty

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Re: M0130
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2023, 09:56:09 am »

A couple questions:

Instead of wiping the working ROM that I have (because I've never actually done this before), can I buy and flash a blank chip instead? If so, is there a part number I can google for the ROM chip?

It'll either be a 2716 or a 2732, I don't remember which but peel up the label and it should tell you. the 27Cxx variants should also be fine.

To wipe a EEPROM, you'll need to grab an eraser box, which is just a UV-C lamp in a sealed box and these can still be had for very cheap. Peel up the label, clean up adhesive residue with isopropyl, and set it in the box for 30-45 minutes, and the ROM is blank. I don't think anyone makes brand new 27xx chips anymore so you'll be buying used or NOS parts. Even in the case of NOS parts, I'd still wipe the chips first just in case cosmic radiation or something flipped a bit in the chip. Even one bit that isn't erased is enough to cause a ROM programming to fail.
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sigma7

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Re: M0130
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2023, 12:16:46 pm »

I picked up an 800K drive cage but there isn't enough clearance between it and my vertically mounted X-Profile. Is there a supported way to install it horizontally like the original widget drive?
AFAIK, the X/ProFile fits above all of the various 3.5" floppy drive mounting configurations that were available for the Lisa. The top edge of the X/ProFile should be aligned with the top edge of the removable drive cage.

If the floppy won't fit under it then double check your drive mount to see if the floppy will actually align with the front panel slot.

If the problem persists, a picture may be the best way to describe the issue.

There is no problem mounting it horizontally if you prefer... perhaps someone has done that and can share a picture?
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andrew

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Re: M0130
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2023, 05:04:54 pm »

I had the X-Profile mounted correctly, screwed into the three holes on the right side of the drive cage and secured with two plastic mounting clips on top. The LED was perfectly aligned. In that configuration there wasn't enough room to position the 800K drive bracket I got from vintagemicros onto the holes at the bottom of the drive cage.

I was able to install the X-Profile horizontally onto a widget drive bracket - or whatever the exact name is for the piece of metal the widget drive rests on top of. For one corner I used one of the metal spacers and for the other three I placed mounting clips onto the bracket - haphazard but fine until I come up with something more elegant. Are those mounting clips made specifically for the X-Profile or are they a part I can find separately?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 05:09:42 pm by andrew »
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sigma7

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Re: M0130
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2023, 05:47:30 pm »

I had the X-Profile mounted correctly ... there wasn't enough room to position the 800K drive bracket I got from vintagemicros onto the holes at the bottom of the drive cage.

Is this exactly the bracket?  http://vintagemicros.com/catalog/lisa-800k-drive-bracket-p-116.html

If not, please send me a picture of the bracket at your convenience.

If it is... it is news to me that there is a bracket that interferes... I presume your bracket has excess empty space above the drive? If not, can you describe the source of the interference?

Quote
I was able to install the X-Profile horizontally onto a widget drive bracket ... Are those mounting clips made specifically for the X-Profile or are they a part I can find separately?

The clips are off-the-shelf ... Richco/Essentra LCBSB-10-01A-RT

eg. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/essentra-components/LCBSB-10-01A-RT/392172
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andrew

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Re: M0130
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2023, 06:04:41 pm »

Yes, that is the bracket. Unless the corresponding ebay listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/203949201150) is somehow not the same thing. When I get some time, I'll try remounting the X-Profile vertically again - I could have been doing something incorrectly. :/ I'll post an image if I have additional trouble.
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sigma7

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Re: M0130
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2023, 06:20:50 pm »

When I get some time, I'll try remounting the X-Profile vertically again ...

If the LED was well aligned with the clear lens in the front panel, then I expect it was in the right place. Regardless, any info that could help in the future is appreciated.

Thanks for working through the issue!
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andrew

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Re: M0130
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2023, 03:30:11 pm »

Here's a google drive link with some photographs I took: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GIG7q9eM-uF3F4zQdgfND0NDxku6G7Ei?usp=sharing

The first photo is what I used to horizontally mount the X/Profile. It's not very elegant, but I wanted at least one corner to be screwed in since I hate removing those clips.

Today, I remounted the drive vertically - the second photo is the LED active on the front panel. The next few photos show the positioning of the mounted X/Profile. Finally, I have some photos of the 800K bracket inside the cage. There's a slight sliver of overlap preventing me from pushing the bracket all the way to the right. At first, I thought the screws themselves might be getting in the way, so I removed the front two screws and pushed the drive a tiny bit further to the right, as seen in the last two photos.
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sigma7

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Re: M0130
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2023, 04:40:19 pm »

I remounted the drive vertically ... I have some photos of the 800K bracket inside the cage. There's a slight sliver of overlap preventing me from pushing the bracket all the way to the right.

Clearly it won't fit... it seems that bracket was made taller than necessary leaving extra room above the drive inside compared to other brackets.

I assume/hope the bracket positions the floppy drive in the correct place at least.

I can't think of a simple solution to the fit (anyone else?), so choices seem limited to another mounting place or modifying (or replacing... I don't think they are all that way) the bracket. A 3d printed bracket is an option.

I agree the clips are a pain/nuisance. Maybe there is a better choice now for something that doesn't require permanent modification to the Lisa, but I'm not aware of it. It is possible to cut off the spring portion (see pic) and thread an 8-32 or M4 nut onto the remaining post, but that is probably even more effort to undo.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 04:44:27 pm by sigma7 »
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andrew

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Re: M0130
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2023, 09:58:43 pm »

So, I thought I'd post my final setup here, as seen in the attached image. Everything fits in very nicely, and I even found a little solution for positioning a plugged-in LED. I took one of the spare clips I had ordered and bent the LED wires around it so it sits at just the right spot to be visible when the front panel is closed.

Also, funny enough, the spare 800K drive I had lying around doesn't actually work properly, so I'll have sort that out soon! In the meantime, it just feels good to have something in the drive slot area! The only other things I need to do are to find an actual bracket-like piece to mount the A/B switch onto and to get a clip of some kind to clean up the ribbon cables.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 07:07:52 am by andrew »
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