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Ethernet for Lisa?

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rayarachelian:
Actually since there is ethernet driver source code in UniPlus, it should be possible to use that and the bitsavers doc to build a driver for MacWorks, that would be really cool, and something like a modern day etherbox would be far more useful for Lisa owners, than if its just for UniPlus.

Chapter 11 of this will be very useful in writing drivers: https://archive.org/details/mac_Inside_Macintosh_Networking_1994
as will some of this: https://archive.org/details/Inside_Macintosh_CD-ROM_1995

I think there was an Inside Macintosh Drivers volume somewhere too, but I don't see it on archive.org (that's the 2nd generation of Inside Mac after Vols I-IV where they were distinct topics per books, like the above networking volume.) The original 4 vol set can be found here, which may have the needed info: https://www.pagetable.com/?p=50
This might help too: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/designing-cards-and-drivers-the-macintosh-family
Looking at my physical dead tree books, I do have "Inside Macintosh Devices" (1994) which could be helpful as well as a ~200 double-sided page binder "Developer University Mini Course: Writing and Using Device Drivers Tutorial" (Oct 1994) - if someone can replicate the etherbox and gets close to being able to write a MacWorks System 6/7 ethernet driver, these would be very useful. I'll see if I can get these scanned in as they don't appear to be available online.

jamesdenton:
The Apple-specific stuff in the Etherbox driver:
https://github.com/arcanebyte/uniplus/blob/master/v1.5/sys/if_eb.c#L741-L949

Maybe someone could build a board with one of these bad boys:
https://www.wiznet.io/product-item/w5100/

Much like the Apple II crowd has:
http://a2retrosystems.com/products.htm

I know Rick has/had one of the SCSI<->Ethernet adapters. I have one that I recently picked up but haven't tested. The problem I see with MacWorks is < System 6.0.3 probably doesn't offer much in terms of *working* PPP/SLiP and/or MacTCP implementations due to resource constraints - namely RAM.

But, if one was really looking for something to do... porting this and running in LOS would be a treat! https://github.com/ep00ch/lwip-contrib-mac

rayarachelian:
If you can get 6.0.8 working on MacWorks, there is this:http://www.applefool.com/se30/Which says MacTCP 2.0.6 will work, otherwise 6.0.3 will only have MacTCP 1.0
I'm pretty sure it's going to be very hard to add TCP/IP to LOS, neither apps nor drivers, nor TCP/IP support exists for it (yet). But I'm not volunteering to do it.  :-\ I doubt it even has AppleNet support as I don't see any filenames for drivers that would indicate it does on LOS.

MacWorks and UniPlus would be the path of least resistance. And I'm even (pleasantly) surprised that UniPlus has a TCP/IP stack.Not sure about Xenix, but I'd lean towards believing that it has no TCP/IP support until it's proven otherwise, though perhaps it might be possible to port the code from UniPlus to it to make it work.

Lisa2:

--- Quote from: rayarachelian on June 28, 2019, 04:18:41 pm ---If you can get 6.0.8 working on MacWorks, there is this:http://www.applefool.com/se30/Which says MacTCP 2.0.6 will work, otherwise 6.0.3 will only have MacTCP 1.0
I'm pretty sure it's going to be very hard to add TCP/IP to LOS, neither apps nor drivers, nor TCP/IP support exists for it (yet). But I'm not volunteering to do it.  :-\ I doubt it even has AppleNet support as I don't see any filenames for drivers that would indicate it does on LOS.

--- End quote ---

Getting useable internet connectivity going on a common Lisa config (MW+, System 6.03, 1Meg RAM) is something I have been trying to achieve for a long time now.  The big problem (as I see it) is that useable (today at least) Macintosh internet applications did not really start hitting their stride till about the same time System 7 became available.  This (as Ray said) creates a quandary because MW+ is limited to System 6.03.

My understanding is that patching MW+ to support 6.08 is no simple task.  I know this because it has already been done, it's called MW+II!

While I do have SCSI ethernet adapters that work with MW+, I never use them any more, I much prefer using TCP/IP over LocalTalk (MacIP).  It's available on every Lisa, and there are many (low cost) options to deploy MacIP these days.

Rick

jamesdenton:

--- Quote from: Lisa2 on June 29, 2019, 08:34:47 pm ---Getting useable internet connectivity going on a common Lisa config (MW+, System 6.03, 1Meg RAM) is something I have been trying to achieve for a long time now.  The big problem (as I see it) is that useable (today at least) Macintosh internet applications did not really start hitting their stride till about the same time System 7 became available.  This (as Ray said) creates a quandary because MW+ is limited to System 6.03.

My understanding is that patching MW+ to support 6.08 is no simple task.  I know this because it has already been done, it's called MW+II!

--- End quote ---

I agree that this is or will be difficult without some new development in this area. The WWW apps that are available for <= 6.0.3 are pretty buggy and hardly usable on today's Internet. Same goes for a lot of early System 7 stuff, for that matter. There is a version of NCSA Telnet that included its own TCP/IP stack and SLIP capabilities. But at the end of the day, you're still using Telnet.

While MacTCP and PPP and the like are certainly doable on the Plus and older system versions, the Plus/SE folks have the benefit of up to 4 MB RAM, which seems to be the difference maker in my experience.


--- Quote from: Lisa2 on June 29, 2019, 08:34:47 pm ---While I do have SCSI ethernet adapters that work with MW+, I never use them any more, I much prefer using TCP/IP over LocalTalk (MacIP).  It's available on every Lisa, and there are many (low cost) options to deploy MacIP these days.

--- End quote ---

Speaking of... how are you liking the Gatorbox?

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