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Author Topic: X/Profile format times?  (Read 165 times)

andrew

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X/Profile format times?
« on: March 09, 2023, 12:32:56 am »

How substantially does the time to format a compact flash card in an X/Profile in a Lisa 2/10 differ from OS to OS? I'm currently formatting a 256MB STAR partition on a Sandisk CF card using MacWorks 1.1h (System 6.0.2). The estimate in the Operation Manual (given for a 2/10 with MW+II) is 38 minutes and I think I've been waiting around two hours now. The Operation manual says
Quote
Formatting/initialization times may be substantially longer under other operating systems and with different IDE devices.
which is fair enough. However, I'm a little concerned because my setup seems similar enough to the example; I can't imagine MW+II is so radically different from 1.1h that there would be such a discrepancy in writing speed. Also, I'm using a type 8 STAR, so the performance should be better. The mouse cursor is responsive, and the display dims after a few minutes of inactivity and brightens when I move the mouse, so at the very least there's no obvious sign of trouble.  :-\

EDIT: It just finished, lol
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 12:55:21 am by andrew »
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sigma7

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2023, 01:08:22 am »

How substantially does the time to format a compact flash card in an X/Profile in a Lisa 2/10 differ from OS to OS? I'm currently formatting a 256MB STAR partition on a Sandisk CF card using MacWorks 1.1h (System 6.0.2). The estimate in the Operation Manual (given for a 2/10 with MW+II) is 38 minutes and I think I've been waiting around two hours now. The Operation manual says
Quote
Formatting/initialization times may be substantially longer under other operating systems and with different IDE devices.
which is fair enough. However, I'm a little concerned because my setup seems similar enough to the example; I can't imagine MW+II is so radically different from 1.1h that there would be such a discrepancy in writing speed. Also, I'm using a type 8 STAR, so the performance should be better. The mouse cursor is responsive, and the display dims after a few minutes of inactivity and brightens when I move the mouse, so at the very least there's no obvious sign of trouble.  :-\

Unless you can see that the X/ProFile is no longer processing commands (which would be indicated by the display chase sequence proceeding uninterrupted, with no flashing of the activity indicators), I suggest you give it another couple of hours.

MW+II is actually substantially different from MW+ in some ways. For this particular issue, I believe the data transfer portion of the profile driver was improved, which would have a noticeable effect when writing every sector on a largish disk.

I don't recall what device was used for the example timing in the manual, but I suspect it was a rotating hard drive, which would be slower than a CF card for random reads, but potentially quite a bit faster for writing consecutive sectors as when formatting.

Once you do have the STAR formatted, consider duplicating it using the X/ProFile's Copy function, as that will be faster than formatting again if you ever need to.

If you do decide to interrupt it, initialize a 5MB STAR and time how long it takes to format on that particular device, then you can calculate the time to format a 256MB STAR on the same device (by multiplying by 256/5 = 51 times longer)

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andrew

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2023, 11:15:43 pm »

Also, before I go and copy a large STAR volume, what kind of part or object do people usually use to keep the front-panel power switch held down for longer periods of time while the Lisa front panel is removed? I've been holding it down with a pen cap, but obviously that's not a very practical or comfortable solution.
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ried

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2023, 01:00:01 am »

Q-tip.
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paule

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2023, 01:31:00 am »

One of my Lisas has had the front switch removed (by a previous owner, presumably when he installed an X/ProFile). For the others... a piece of cardboard folded about eight times.  ;D
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patrick

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2023, 05:34:36 am »

As shown below.

And where do you store your boot disks? 2nd picture.


BTW: how do I embed images in my text? There is an "img" - "/img" tag, but how do I refer to the attached files?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 05:41:28 am by patrick »
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blusnowkitty

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2023, 08:53:23 am »

Also, before I go and copy a large STAR volume, what kind of part or object do people usually use to keep the front-panel power switch held down for longer periods of time while the Lisa front panel is removed? I've been holding it down with a pen cap, but obviously that's not a very practical or comfortable solution.

https://www.amazon.com/Syntus-Precision-Screwdriver-Electronics-Cellphone/dp/B071PB4RPV

I've found that one of these miniature screwdriver bits is the perfect size to fit in the little slot and since the sides are all flat, it wedges in and stays in place very nicely.
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sigma7

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2023, 01:44:55 pm »

BTW: how do I embed images in my text? There is an "img" - "/img" tag, but how do I refer to the attached files?

The "help" example is this:

Code: [Select]
[img width=30] https//wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/images/1/19/Button_media.png [/img]
That seems to work for pics with a known url.

Test referring to post's attachment:

The "topic=" number is easy enough to discern from the URL when posting a reply, however the "attach=" number seems to be a counter and non-obvious, but can be discerned from the URL of the attachment after posting.

Code: [Select]
[img width=316]/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=388.0;attach=540;image[/img]

After posting and editing to update the URL of the image, I deleted the first attachment to see if it is persistent. -- update, no it does not remain available. So the inline image needs to remain as an attachment as well.

More codes here (Perhaps not all are applicable to the version currently running)

https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Alphabetical_list_of_all_bulletin_board_codes
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 01:59:30 pm by sigma7 »
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andrew

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2023, 08:16:26 pm »

I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone here for the helpful answers and support.

First, I was able to use a folded piece of thicker paper to hold the switch open.

Second, I have another question. I don't want to connect an actual hard drive to my X-Profile, but it would be convenient if I could get a CF to IDE adapter and copy a STAR from one CF card to another. If I do that, can I just remove a CF card from an adapter (plugged into the primary port) and put it into the secondary CF slot, or are the CF cards formatted slightly differently when used with an IDE adapter? Even if I can't swap back and forth, I could still do two copies; from card A in the secondary to card B in the primary, and then a second copy back to card C in the secondary.

Has anyone tried anything like this? If so, is there a decent IDE adapter anyone here might reccomend for this purpose? I've tried a few IDE to CF adapters over the years in various macs and have had mixed luck - it really seems to be a crapshoot - so I'd prefer not to take any chances with some random part that could break and cause problems (I have had that happen before, unfortunately).
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sigma7

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Re: X/Profile format times?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2023, 12:28:06 am »

it would be convenient if I could get a CF to IDE adapter and copy a STAR from one CF card to another. If I do that, can I just remove a CF card from an adapter (plugged into the primary port) and put it into the secondary CF slot?

Yes, you can move X/ProFile media formatted while connected as primary or secondary to the other without problems; they aren't treated/formatted any differently.

A CF to IDE adapter is passive wiring (no electronics needed), so it "shouldn't" be difficult to make a good one, but there is a quality range for everything I suppose.

You can use a desktop computer to copy X/ProFile media as well; eg. if you have a Mac, here is an AppleScript to assist: XProFile CF Card Image Tool

on *nix (or OSX) you can use dd, on windows ... I don't recall names offhand but probably any utility that will block copy devices ignoring the formatting/partition scheme should work.
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