General Category > LisaList2
Does anyone have a spare Lisa motherboard?
AlexTheCat123:
The video board is working great and I just fixed the second memory board, so it seems to recognize the full 1MB now. Also, a transistor is on the way to get the sound working. It seems that I may have been wrong about the ROM version because the computer boots just fine from a MacWorks 1.0 boot disk, which makes me think that it has to be revision D or later, even though it has a C written on it. Although the MacWorks disk worked just fine, it gives an error 49 whenever I try to boot from a LisaTest 3.0 disk, so there may still be some problems with it. Unfortunately, the floppy drive in the Quadra 700 that I was using to make disks for the Lisa last night stopped working in the middle of making a disk, so I have not been able to test any other disks on it yet. I will set up another Mac this afternoon and make some more disks to see if it will boot from any of them.
rayarachelian:
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 20, 2019, 02:28:18 pm ---The video board is working great and I just fixed the second memory board, so it seems to recognize the full 1MB now. Also, a transistor is on the way to get the sound working.
--- End quote ---
That's awesome! Congrats! You've just about got yourself a working Lisa! Well done!
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 20, 2019, 02:28:18 pm ---It seems that I may have been wrong about the ROM version because the computer boots just fine from a MacWorks 1.0 boot disk, which makes me think that it has to be revision D or later, even though it has a C written on it.
--- End quote ---
When you first power on the Lisa, during the self test, but before the boot menu that shows floppy, you'll see the version in the upper right corner, i.e. D/A8 for the "D" boot ROM version and A8 for the I/O ROM.
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 20, 2019, 02:28:18 pm ---Although the MacWorks disk worked just fine, it gives an error 49 whenever I try to boot from a LisaTest 3.0 disk, so there may still be some problems with it.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I'd just assume a bad floppy at this point, download another from elsewhere and - there are many versions of LisaTest, so not sure which one is valid for what system exactly, but sounds like that one is throwing an A or F-Line exception during boot, so it's likely corrupt.
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 20, 2019, 02:28:18 pm ---Unfortunately, the floppy drive in the Quadra 700 that I was using to make disks for the Lisa last night stopped working in the middle of making a disk, so I have not been able to test any other disks on it yet. I will set up another Mac this afternoon and make some more disks to see if it will boot from any of them.
--- End quote ---
I'd say try to fix the serial ports next, so you can fire up BLU.
Another possibility is to get a FloppyEmu ( https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/ ) and get the A/B switch board for it so you can switch between the physical floppy drive and the emu, these are awesome. You can use a tiny screen to select a disk image from an SDHC card, and not have to deal with actual floppies at all. I have one, as well as an X/Profile, both are highly recommended.
BTW, the X/Profile does work with certain CF to SD card adapters so don't worry about CF cards getting scarce.
AlexTheCat123:
--- Quote ---That's awesome! Congrats! You've just about got yourself a working Lisa! Well done!
--- End quote ---
Yep! It's just about fully working at this point. I just need to fix the serial ports and test the parallel port to make sure that it is working properly. I am thinking about building an IDEFile instead of buying the X/ProFile because it is a whole lot cheaper. I just got a transistor in the mail today to replace the one that popped on the I/O board, but there was still no sound when I turned it on and the transistor got very hot, so I killed the power. Maybe the op-amp is bad?
--- Quote ---When you first power on the Lisa, during the self test, but before the boot menu that shows floppy, you'll see the version in the upper right corner, i.e. D/A8 for the "D" boot ROM version and A8 for the I/O ROM.
--- End quote ---
My Lisa doesn't show a ROM version in the corner for some reason.
--- Quote ---Yeah, I'd just assume a bad floppy at this point, download another from elsewhere and - there are many versions of LisaTest, so not sure which one is valid for what system exactly, but sounds like that one is throwing an A or F-Line exception during boot, so it's likely corrupt.
--- End quote ---
You were definitely correct about this! I made another floppy disk for LisaTest and LOS and they both booted just fine. The machine even passed all of the tests in LisaTest!
--- Quote ---I'd say try to fix the serial ports next, so you can fire up BLU.
--- End quote ---
Those serial ports are going to be tough to fix, but I'll give it a try. I tried fixing them earlier and I discovered that one of the chips on the I/O board that controls them had its pads completely corroded away! I managed to get the chip out, but it is going to be difficult to patch all of those connections in addition to the other connections that I need to fix for the serial ports.
rayarachelian:
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 21, 2019, 04:52:43 pm ---Yep! It's just about fully working at this point. I just need to fix the serial ports and test the parallel port to make sure that it is working properly. I am thinking about building an IDEFile instead of buying the X/ProFile because it is a whole lot cheaper.
--- End quote ---
There's also this: https://github.com/stepleton/cameo/tree/master/aphid - see which one suits your needs.
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 21, 2019, 04:52:43 pm ---I just got a transistor in the mail today to replace the one that popped on the I/O board, but there was still no sound when I turned it on and the transistor got very hot, so I killed the power. Maybe the op-amp is bad?
--- End quote ---
Could be. Whatever feeds either the base or the collector into that transistor is likely pushing too much power, or maybe there's a short somewhere.
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 21, 2019, 04:52:43 pm ---My Lisa doesn't show a ROM version in the corner for some reason.
--- End quote ---
That's odd, are the right and top edges of the display visible? Could they be outside the screen? If not it could be this version is very old and doesn't display the version, or the version is displayed while the CRT is still warming up and not yet visible. If it's the latter, pressing the reset switch after it shows the boot display will let you see it.
Another thing you could do is go into service mode and look around memory to see the version bytes. To get into Service Mode, boot off the floppy drive without a disk in, and when it throws an error press Apple-Shift-S. The I/O ROM version is stored at 02A1. You can read the boot ROM version at the end of the ROM itself around the fe3ff0 area after the copyright string.
For the H ROM, there is source available which says this, but the address may vary for earlier ones.
It doesn't seem to write the boot ROM version to low memory. If it turns out you have a rare ROM, I'd dump it out and see if it matches the ones on bitsavers, if you don't find a match, it would be important to send it to bitsavers.
--- Code: ---3FF4| ;************ COPYRIGHT NOTICE ***************************************
3FF4| 43 38 34 41 50 50 4C HDGMSG .ASCII 'C84APPLE' ; CHG005
3FFB| 45
3FFC| ;*********************************************************************
3FFC|
3FFC| 02 VRSN .BYTE $02 ;version 2 CHG001
3FFD| 48 REV .ASCII 'H' ; rev H CHG001
3FFE| .ENDC
3FFE|
3FFE|
3FFE| 0000 LAST .WORD $0000 ;checksum word for ROM test
4000| .END
--- End code ---
--- Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on November 21, 2019, 04:52:43 pm ---Those serial ports are going to be tough to fix, but I'll give it a try. I tried fixing them earlier and I discovered that one of the chips on the I/O board that controls them had its pads completely corroded away! I managed to get the chip out, but it is going to be difficult to patch all of those connections in addition to the other connections that I need to fix for the serial ports.
--- End quote ---
Yup, that's the Zilog 8530 SCC. It does have a lot of pins, so you'd have quite a lot of traces to follow and patch. :(
AlexTheCat123:
--- Quote ---There's also this: https://github.com/stepleton/cameo/tree/master/aphid - see which one suits your needs.
--- End quote ---
Wow! I didn't even know about this! Thanks for the info!
--- Quote ---That's odd, are the right and top edges of the display visible? Could they be outside the screen? If not it could be this version is very old and doesn't display the version, or the version is displayed while the CRT is still warming up and not yet visible. If it's the latter, pressing the reset switch after it shows the boot display will let you see it.
--- End quote ---
The entire screen is definitely visible and I have tried pressing the reset button so that I can see the entire boot sequence, but it never displays the version. I have ordered the revision H ROMs off of eBay just for the sake of having the latest ROM version.
--- Quote ---If it turns out you have a rare ROM, I'd dump it out and see if it matches the ones on bitsavers, if you don't find a match, it would be important to send it to bitsavers.
--- End quote ---
This is a great idea, but unfortunately I don't have an EPROM reader.
Unfortunately, I am going out of town tomorrow and I won't get back until Thanksgiving day, so I won't be able to do any more work on the Lisa until then.
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