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[anotherLISAguy]

As suggested due to the potential size, the follow-up question is now this standalone topic.
For those jumping in all this is due to the question of how to archive rare twiggy disks in 2025.
Hopefully, the prep outline can serve as the basis of a guide of sort.

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Thanks for the input; my follow-up is longer, but hopefully, it will be helpful for others later on.

It sounds like the proper first step is to ensure a solid, stable platform before committing to interacting with the Twiggy disks. Then, secure/create some Twiggy media to test the drives, and lastly, set up the equipment for capture of the disk before committing to the actual copy process.

Being a person who tends to approach things in a structured, pragmatic manner, let’s start with the base machine itself. Bear in mind that this original question unearths several issues to discuss, and I hope others can help partake in this ad hoc guide. There is so much information sprinkled across our archived discussions and common knowledge; it might be helpful to identify a format that can pull this all together. A drill-down wiki (hmmm) would be a dream, but this isn’t that. (And yes, I have reviewed LISA FAQ and other resurrection videos and repairs; this is more a structured outline). So, for those who have an interest, let’s get started with this revamped how-to.

As mentioned, it has been a little over 20 years since this L1 was last run and packed away. The system itself was stored with all its critical/rare individual components packed in separately.


My plan is to approach this under the age-old practice of swapping out boards and card cages to get confidence checks on the fitness of these components. Note that sometimes bad cards affect other items, like video or disk I/O—things the initial startup test may not reveal. This deductive reasoning by the process of elimination is what helps to troubleshoot an issue. This may be old-school knowledge to many, but I am reiterating this for others who may follow.


The first assumption is that there is a LISA CORE (valid for all models), complete with everything but the card cage, power supply, and internal drives. We can break down the troubleshooting of those core components later if people are interested.

The SWAP components (and their problem areas) needed for a running system are:
Note: This ignores obvious component damage, which requires repair prior to use/testing.


- Power Supply: generally stable apart from aging capacitors
     - No power (Safety switch,no pop/smoke, bench testing, bad caps or electrical repair)

- Motherboard Assy (Card Cage): fairly rock solid
    - Start up failure check of last resort (corrosion on slots or read connector, evident electrical damage)
       
- I/O Board: generally good but prone to corrosion
     - Startup Failure ( L1 battery damage (destroyed etches), missing chips, broken wires, correct resistors for model, corroded contacts)
       
- CPU Board: generally good
     - Startup Failure (missing chips, broken etches, corroded contacts)
       
- Memory Board(s:) mostly bullet proof though
     - Startup Failure (missing chips, broken etches, corroded contacts)
       
- Disk Drives- not needed for card cage testing
     - Twiggy Drive [L1] - temperamental
         - (may need head cleaning to head replacement and realignment)
           
    - Micro Drive [L2] - generally good
        - (read problems unrepairable from cleaning are best drive replaced)
           
OTHER ------------------------------------------------


- Hard Drive - not needed for card cage testing

    - External Profile 5/10 MB: [ALL]
        - generally stable (spin up issue, reseat all external cables, deeper dive - verify power supply, review other discussions - generally easier to replace parts or profile)
           
    - Internal Widget Drive 10MB: [L2/10] [XL]
        - generally stable (spin up issues: reseat chips and cables, adjust head release solenoid - review other discussions - generally easier to replace parts if all else ‘works’ )
           
other items outside of these CORE components (inside the case) that have problems from time to time (expand later):

- Monitor Tube Assy: Generally stable
    - (burn in aesthetics, broken or bent yoke pins,, repair or replace)
    - **HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO SERVICE**
       
- Video Board Assy: Generally stable
    - (is prone to drift, adjust potentiometers, repair or replace)
    - **HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO SERVICE**
       
- Keyboard: generally good
    - (keypad foam disintegrates over time, replace and clean/inspect pcb when inside)
       
- Soft Switch: can be flaky
    - (bulb dies, replace bulb or part)
       
- Internal contacts: generally not an issue
    - (clean corroded contacts, inspect pinched, cut or bare wires in harness, repair or replace as needed) Note: probably the biggest pain the ass repair
       
-----------------------------EOL

It would be appreciated for any helpful feedback on overlooked items, gotchas and the overall part-swap approach. This guide offers a roadmap for the initial "dusting off" stage and doesn't cover all aspects discussed.

If you made it to the end, thanks for your interest and remember I am interested in hearing any input of other matters like a WIKI drilldown guide or simply overall formatting for clarity via this message or DM to reduce noise.

Thanks again and take care.

[anotherLISAguy]

Video Board Assy: Generally stable

In my experience, video boards are actually some of the least stable components in a Lisa. I think I've had more video board issues with my Lisas than anything else! It gets really hot in the area around the CRT, leading to frequent component failures and cracked solder joints, and the LM7824 voltage regulator that's being overdriven to put out 28V also fails a lot due to being pushed past its limits. And then on top of all that, you have bad capacitors and the flaky pots that you mentioned, so I would tend to say that video boards are actually pretty darn unreilable.

Appreciate that feedback and that is one of the purposes of this 'outline'. 
My own experiences come from the time I spent servicing this equipment through the late introduction and orphan phase of LISA.  I have had very little interaction with them as a senior computer, like I said they have been hibernating for a while. 
Either way, I'm looking for an easy to administer solution that would allow these type of constructive edits to be made communally (again thinking WIKI).

Understanding actual mileage may vary - what order would you list the most common issues are and your dependability factor 10 to 1 worst - with more information we can come up with a better way to organize it. 
Not looking for anything too heavy, simply issues we can expand on or xref later on as needed. 
Your experience definitely lends to this type of overview/outline.
I'll continue to update the original post to reflect this type of feedback.

Thanks again 

[sigma7]

References to other documents:

072-0085_Level_1_Lisa_Technical_Procedures_Mar85.pdf
by Apple Computer Inc.
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/service/072-0085_Level_1_Lisa_Technical_Procedures_Mar85.pdf

Apple Lisa/Macintosh XL Do-it-Yourself Guide
by Sun Remarketing Inc.
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/sun_remarketing/Lisa_Do-It-Yourself_Guide.pdf

Macintosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets SE
by Larry Pina
https://archive.org/details/MACREPUPGSECRETS/page/n254/mode/1up

[AlexTheCat123]

My own experiences come from the time I spent servicing this equipment through the late introduction and orphan phase of LISA.  I have had very little interaction with them as a senior computer, like I said they have been hibernating for a while.

I'm sure they were a decent bit more reliable back then!

Understanding actual mileage may vary - what order would you list the most common issues are and your dependability factor 10 to 1 worst - with more information we can come up with a better way to organize it.

As you said, mileage will vary from person to person depending on the luck they've had with their particular Lisas, but here's how I would classify things based on my own personal experiences:

Most Common Issues:
1. Corroded I/O board and motherboard (and sometimes even the CPU and RAM boards if it's bad enough) in a battery-damaged Lisa 1 or 2/5. Not a problem at all in a 2/10.
2. Bad RIFA caps in the PSU. Luckily a really easy fix.
3. Apple 1.2A power supply problems. The 1.8A DataPower supplies tend to be rock-solid, but the 1.2A Apple ones are pretty terrible. I've had 3 of them, and only got one of them working. By contrast, I have 6 DataPowers and they all worked fine from the start without any repairs, other than replacing the RIFAs as a precaution!
4. Video board weirdness. This could range from a jittery picture because of flaky pots to no picture at all because of a bad component or cracked solder joints. Or, in the case of the bad solder joints, a picture that comes and goes when you smack the side of your Lisa!
5. Widget drive issues. I've gotten pretty lucky with my Widgets, so this hasn't really been a problem for me, but it's absolutely an issue for many. The only problems I've had are a stuck spindle due to dried up bearing grease, a misaligned head brake that wasn't releasing the heads properly, a bad Z8, and a drive that just needed a LLF to come back to life.
6. CPU board issues. The CPU board is pretty complex, so there's a lot to go wrong. It also gets pretty hot, and the heat is trapped in there to a certain extent, which definitely doesn't help. And it can be tough to troubleshoot since it's impossible to probe while the machine is running unless you have a riser board.
7. RAM failures. I don't think I've ever actually had anything go wrong with a RAM board before, but I know several people who have. Luckily these issues are normally pretty easy to track down because for most failure modes, the Lisa will tell you which chip is bad.

Since ProFiles are external, it doesn't feel right to include them in our list, but they also tend to have some problems. The power supplies aren't very reliable and also have RIFAs that need replacing. Plus, nearly every ProFile I've encountered has had a stuck spindle motor because of dried up grease in the bearings. You can normally free them up by spinning things by hand for a minute or two before powering on the drive, but I encountered one that was so bad that I had to spin it with a drill press for about 8 hours while heating it with a heat lamp before it was free enough to rotate under its own power!

Dependability Ratings:
I/O Board: 1/10 before repairing corrosion damage, 8/10 after repairing damage or in a 2/10
CPU Board: 7/10
Motherboard: 3/10 before repairing corrosion damage, 10/10 after repairing damage or in a 2/10
RAM Board: 9/10
ProFile: 3/10 before servicing, 8/10 after servicing
Widget: 1/10 before servicing, 7/10 after servicing
400K Floppy: 9/10
DataPower 1.8A PSU: 9/10
Apple 1.2A PSU: 5/10
Video Board: 4/10

This is all very subjective since it's based on personal experience, and I'm sure others will disagree with it. So take everything here with a grain of salt!