A Lisa Inside An FPGA

[karmann68]

Can the FPGA run a real widget drive?

Sure, just plug it into the external ProFile port with the appropriate cable and set the ProFile switch to EXT! You'll have to power the Widget separately though; the board doesn't have a Widget power connector on it.

Even though my Lenovo mouse fully works in the boot menu, once I get into LOS the pointer moves but I can't seem to click on anything. Does this sound like a mouse compatibility issue or something else?

Hmm, I don't see any reason why a mouse would work in the boot menu but not in LOS. Is it just double-click that doesn't work, or is single-click (like pulling down a menu) broken too?

After some more testing I realised that the Menus weren't even showing up.

I tried the Macworks image and it worked fine. So then I tried switching the I/O ROM Select switch to the left, rebooted to LOS 2.0 and it now works!

Now re-reading the Readme to understand what that switch does again. (EDIT: OK, got it. 400/800KB Floppy or Twiggy ROM select).

 

[AlexTheCat123]

Yeah, that explains it! If the switch is flipped to the right (40 position), LOS will hang forever unless you have Twiggies connected.

[joeventura]

Yeah, there were just so many ports, buttons, and switches that I had to squeeze on here and I didn't really see a better way of doing it without making the board absurdly long. And I figured that having ports/buttons on all 4 sides would be better than making it really long and more expensive but with ports on only 2 sides, so that's why I made that decision. Defintiely not ideal though.

Just to reiterate, you are the rockstar in this equation, and I am not worthy to shine your shoes. But if I can humbly suggest that if you ever make another version of this board you add an edge connector that all the buttons run out to that would be awesome and then folks could create a case where they have button control in one centralized location. But again I am merely a mortal.

[Lisa1]

If you are determined to use an Apple USB keyboard, I have been able to do so by putting the LisaFPGA into Lisa keyboard mode and then using James Denton's usb2Lisa keyboard adapter. It's a bit of a roundabout solution, but it works.

[AlexTheCat123]

Yeah, the usb2Lisa adapter has a dedicated USB host controller on it instead of bit-banging USB like I'm doing, so it should be able to handle pretty much any keyboard out there.

[karmann68]

Can LOS 1.0 used without a Twiggy Drive and just with a floppy emulator or physical Sony drive? And where do I find the twiggies.image file? Thanks

[ried]

I finally got an appropriate display and had some time to explore the LisaFPGA today. How cool is this thing?!?    A few observations and questions follow. For context, I've only been attempting to boot Lisa Office System 1.2, 2.0, and 3.1 so far.

First, I can get a working LOS 2.0 desktop using the H/A8 ROM configuration. If I attempt to use the H/40 ROM configuration, LOS 1.2 and 2.0 both hang after drawing the desktop icons and before drawing the menu bars at the top of the screen. This is usually when the Twiggy drives "grunt" to reset the mechanism and the floppies are subsequently shown on the desktop, so presumably it's stuck because there's no floppy drive for the 40 ROM to reset.

Using the A8 I/O ROM bypasses this issue.

Attempting to boot LOS 3.1 gives error 10738 no matter what. I'm using the recommended PNY microSD cards, which work properly with a standalone ESProFile attached to a real Lisa. The same LOS 3.1 drive image inevitably fails with the LisaFPGA. I have used multiple PNY cards, and erased / copied over known good drive images many times with the same result. I cannot boot LOS 3.1 on the LisaFPGA at this time.  Edit: This has been resolved by creating a new 10MB disk image and creating a fresh LOS 3.1 installation using the BMOW FloppyEmu. Woohoo!

With LOS 1.2 hanging at the point when Twiggies are supposed to be shown on the desktop, I was tempted to attach the drives via the breakout board and see if that enabled me to fully boot LOS 1.2, so I attached them per Alex's instructions. Everything seems to hook up just fine, but I noticed that the red stripe on the drive connector cable is on the opposite side of the real Lisa's red stripe on it 26-pin cable. On Alex's supplied cable, the connector slots into the keyed port with the red stripe closest to the outside of the Twiggy drive, while the Lisa's own drive cage connector features a red stripe oriented toward the middle of the drive (photos attached for reference). I would like to confirm that there are no issues with this before applying power to the drives. Halp!

LOS 1.2 drive image also attached, so others can tinker with it. I made that a couple of years ago using sigma7's BLU to copy the contents of my LOS 1.2 X/ProFile to one of ArcaneByte/James' neat (now unavailable) PocketBeagle-based ProFile emulators. The same disk image works great with Alex's more modern ESProFile, too. Teamwork!

Who's going to jump in first and show their Twiggies working? 

[ried]

Since the pre-existing LOS 3.1 disk images didn't work for me - even those labeled "fresh install" - I went ahead and created a 10MB disk image and installed LOS 3.1 with all of the 7/7 apps. These should work for everyone if the LisaFPGA uses the same Video State ROM on all LisaFPGA builds. Cheers.

[AlexTheCat123]

Can LOS 1.0 used without a Twiggy Drive and just with a floppy emulator or physical Sony drive? And where do I find the twiggies.image file? Thanks

From my testing over the past several months (and seemingly from what @ried has found too), it looks like the answer is no. It hangs on the desktop waiting for the nonexistent floppy drives if you have the 40 ROMs selected, and doesn't even get to the desktop at all with the A8 ROMs.

Attempting to boot LOS 3.1 gives error 10738 no matter what. I'm using the recommended PNY microSD cards, which work properly with a standalone ESProFile attached to a real Lisa. The same LOS 3.1 drive image inevitably fails with the LisaFPGA. I have used multiple PNY cards, and erased / copied over known good drive images many times with the same result. I cannot boot LOS 3.1 on the LisaFPGA at this time.  Edit: This has been resolved by creating a new 10MB disk image and creating a fresh LOS 3.1 installation using the BMOW FloppyEmu. Woohoo!

Was the defective image an image that had previously been used on a 2/10 by chance? Once you boot LOS 3 on a 2/10, if you try and use the same image on a 2/5 again, then you'll get an error 10738. You can get around this by either reinstalling the OS or by making the FPGA trick the OS into thinking it's on a 2/10 by connecting GPIO0 to 3.3V.

I would like to confirm that there are no issues with this before applying power to the drives. Halp!

Yeah, we definitely don't want to fry any Twiggy drives! I think the easiest way to confirm the polarity is to test continuity between pin 1 (12V) on the breakout board's connector and something on the drive that runs on 12V. Looking at the Twiggy schematics, it appears as if some good 12V candidates on the drive would be a leg of C1, C5, C10, C16, or C18. The other leg is ground, so if you don't see continuity, then you're probably on the ground leg (or my connector is backwards and we have a serious problem). Pin 1 on the breakout connector is going to be the pin with the square pad (all the others are circular); it's the one at the bottom-left for the UPPER TWIGGY connector. If you get continuity between the 12V pin and one of those capacitors on the drive, then the polarity should be right and you should be clear to turn things on!

Just in case something does go wrong, I'd suggest starting with just one drive connected so that you're not risking two of them at once.

Who's going to jump in first and show their Twiggies working? 

Hopefully you if we can get to the bottom of the cable situation!

[slewis1962]

Today I've been tinkering in the workshop. As my original Lisa keyboards need rebuilt I've been using several USB keyboards. Both my USB keyboards repeat keys randomly and even repeat after my fingers are completely off the keyboard. Anyone else have this problem? I'm wondering if I just happen to have two flaky keyboards (both brand new) or if this is some kind of problem with my board?

[slewis1962]

I finally got an appropriate display and had some time to explore the LisaFPGA today. How cool is this thing?!?    A few observations and questions follow. For context, I've only been attempting to boot Lisa Office System 1.2, 2.0, and 3.1 so far.

First, I can get a working LOS 2.0 desktop using the H/A8 ROM configuration. If I attempt to use the H/40 ROM configuration, LOS 1.2 and 2.0 both hang after drawing the desktop icons and before drawing the menu bars at the top of the screen. This is usually when the Twiggy drives "grunt" to reset the mechanism and the floppies are subsequently shown on the desktop, so presumably it's stuck because there's no floppy drive for the 40 ROM to reset.

Using the A8 I/O ROM bypasses this issue.

Attempting to boot LOS 3.1 gives error 10738 no matter what. I'm using the recommended PNY microSD cards, which work properly with a standalone ESProFile attached to a real Lisa. The same LOS 3.1 drive image inevitably fails with the LisaFPGA. I have used multiple PNY cards, and erased / copied over known good drive images many times with the same result. I cannot boot LOS 3.1 on the LisaFPGA at this time.  Edit: This has been resolved by creating a new 10MB disk image and creating a fresh LOS 3.1 installation using the BMOW FloppyEmu. Woohoo!

With LOS 1.2 hanging at the point when Twiggies are supposed to be shown on the desktop, I was tempted to attach the drives via the breakout board and see if that enabled me to fully boot LOS 1.2, so I attached them per Alex's instructions. Everything seems to hook up just fine, but I noticed that the red stripe on the drive connector cable is on the opposite side of the real Lisa's red stripe on it 26-pin cable. On Alex's supplied cable, the connector slots into the keyed port with the red stripe closest to the outside of the Twiggy drive, while the Lisa's own drive cage connector features a red stripe oriented toward the middle of the drive (photos attached for reference). I would like to confirm that there are no issues with this before applying power to the drives. Halp!

LOS 1.2 drive image also attached, so others can tinker with it. I made that a couple of years ago using sigma7's BLU to copy the contents of my LOS 1.2 X/ProFile to one of ArcaneByte/James' neat (now unavailable) PocketBeagle-based ProFile emulators. The same disk image works great with Alex's more modern ESProFile, too. Teamwork!

Who's going to jump in first and show their Twiggies working? 

I'm waiting for feedback from others before ordering a Twiggy breakout board.

[AlexTheCat123]

Today I've been tinkering in the workshop. As my original Lisa keyboards need rebuilt I've been using several USB keyboards. Both my USB keyboards repeat keys randomly and even repeat after my fingers are completely off the keyboard. Anyone else have this problem? I'm wondering if I just happen to have two flaky keyboards (both brand new) or if this is some kind of problem with my board?

Can't say that I've seen that exact symptom or heard or heard it from anyone yet. Clearly the keyboard interface is proving to be the weak point of this whole project...

[ried]

Just in case something does go wrong, I'd suggest starting with just one drive connected so that you're not risking two of them at once.

I am absolutely going to wait for you, or at least someone more technically proficient than I am, to tackle that confirmation! 

It is certainly possible that the LOS 3.1 image had been used on a 2/10, which caused error 10738. I just copied it from my repository of Lisa disk images. Glad to know it's that simple.

Nice work on this, Alex! Coolest project ever. Watch out, this battle station is operational!

[karmann68]

Today I've been tinkering in the workshop. As my original Lisa keyboards need rebuilt I've been using several USB keyboards. Both my USB keyboards repeat keys randomly and even repeat after my fingers are completely off the keyboard. Anyone else have this problem? I'm wondering if I just happen to have two flaky keyboards (both brand new) or if this is some kind of problem with my board?

Can't say that I've seen that exact symptom or heard or heard it from anyone yet. Clearly the keyboard interface is proving to be the weak point of this whole project...

I've seen the same issue with my HP keyboard. Typing slower seems to help I think but will do further testing.

[AlexTheCat123]

I've seen the same issue with my HP keyboard. Typing slower seems to help I think but will do further testing.

Interesting. I use an early-2010s HP keyboard with mine and I can type as fast as I want without problems. Might your issue (and yours, @slewis1962) be related to the key repeat rate in LOS? You have to turn it down in Preferences when overclocking or else just tapping a key once will make it repeat several times.