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[bmwcyclist]

Am I correct in my understanding that the largest ESProfile.image is 10mb?

If I am wrong and a larger image volume can be used can you please provide a .image file of that size?

Thanks!

[AlexTheCat123]

Theoretically, you should be able to go up to 4GB, which is the largest file that you can fit on a FAT32-formatteed SD card. Although a disk of that size is not really useful on the Lisa.

I've got a few 256MB images that I use for MacWorks, so I'd say that's probably a good practical maximum size. There's nothing special about an ESProFile (or Cameo/Aphid or ArduinoFile) image; it's literally just a raw binary file that stores each block of the disk without any headers or other metadata, so you can create one of arbitrary size using dd.

Or, if you want to get even simpler than that, you could actually just take any file on your computer that's about the size that you'd like your image to be, rename it to something.image, copy it over to your ESProFile, and then format it on the Lisa. I know I've done that a few times when I haven't felt like opening a terminal window!

[bmwcyclist]

FANTASTIC!

thank you!

[bmwcyclist]

Or, if you want to get even simpler than that, you could actually just take any file on your computer that's about the size that you'd like your image to be, rename it to something.image, copy it over to your ESProFile, and then format it on the Lisa. I know I've done that a few times when I haven't felt like opening a terminal window!

Looks like BLU does not want to touch it.

How do you format it?

I have a 250meg file called profile.image in the lower port of my parallel card. (external ESProfile).

I am booting MacWorks off of the internal ESProfile and the MacOS is on my BlueSCSI (7.5.5)

[AlexTheCat123]

Yeah, I'm not sure that BLU knows how to deal with big disks like that.

To format it in MacWorks (I'm assuming MacWorks, not MacWorks Plus II), run the MacWorks Hard Disk Install program that's on the MW installation floppy and choose the Initialize option. It should let you select your disk and format from there. Not sure if there are any limitations when it comes to size under MW, but I know that MW+II should be able to handle the disk without issue.

[bmwcyclist]

The external ESPROFILE has the large profile.image file. The LED is green so it seems to like it.

I know the external works well cause I boot off it all the time.

However, the Mac works installer seems to only see my internal ESPROFILE.

I didn't mean this to turn into a troubleshooting thread, but your help would be appreciated because it would be nice to be able to make profile images quick and easy.

[ried]

On macOS 26.0 (Tahoe) you can use Terminal and dd to create a blank image in whatever size you'd like. For example, open Terminal and change to your directory of choice (i.e. "cd Desktop") and then...

Code: [Select]

dd if=/dev/zero of=HD200.img bs=1M count=200
That should generate a blank file called HD200.img that's ~200MB in size.

[bmwcyclist]

On macOS 26.0 (Tahoe) you can use Terminal and dd to create a blank image in whatever size you'd like. For example, open Terminal and change to your directory of choice (i.e. "cd Desktop") and then...

Code: [Select]

dd if=/dev/zero of=HD200.img bs=1M count=200
That should generate a blank file called HD200.img that's ~200MB in size.

I don't have a modern Macintosh.

I have several utilities to make.IMG files if that's all that's needed, but I was under the impression that a profile.image file is not the same format.

[sigma7]

I don't have a modern Macintosh.

Do you have anything running OSX? If so, what version?

If not, what OS are you using/have available to put stuff on the SD card?

I have several utilities to make.IMG files if that's all that's needed, but I was under the impression that a profile.image file is not the same format.

That's correct, the emulated ProFile image files (as used by eg. the ESProFile) are not the same as .img files created from floppies, MacOS hard disks, CDs etc.

Looks like BLU does not want to touch it.

Please provide more info: Does BLU recognize there is a parallel port card (If not, it is likely a hardware problem)? If so, does it recognize there is a hard disk attached to it (If not, it is likely a hardware problem)? If so, what happens when you try to access it?

Note that BLU isn't capable of "initializing" disks, meaning the process of configuring the disk for use by an operating system, creating a root directory, boot blocks, and so on. The "format" function implemented in BLU is a lower level operation that configures the magnetic media into sectors.

However, BLU may still be a useful tool in cases such as this to help identify why the operating system installer cannot initialize the drive.

I'm not sure that BLU knows how to deal with big disks like that.

I believe BLU will be comfortable up to the limit of 16M blocks (about 8GB).

limitations when it comes to size under MW

From the screen pic it looks like you are using MW+II, but for completeness: MacWorks XL (preceding MacWorks Plus and MacWorks Plus II) is limited to MFS, which according to wikipedia, was limited to 20MB volumes.

edit: attempted to decrease the number of typos

[bmwcyclist]

Thank you for the replies! Here are the answers to your questions.

1. I manage my image primarily using a Windows operating system.

I can copy the files and rename them, but of course I cannot mount them.

When I work with my BLUESCSI images, I just mount them to basilisk.

2. Thank you for confirming. I figured with a different Block size as well as the fact I think all of the MAC utilities are looking for a SCSI device and not a parallel device. This would be an issue.

3. Sorry, I was not more detailed.. the parallel port card works great. Blu could see "something" (I didn't take a screenshot sorry) but would not low level format. It gave me an error along the lines of this is not a 5 or10 meg profile..

I didn't go to the BLU utility at first because from the above description I thought it would show up as simply volume that needed formatting. That didn't happen and none of my utilities could see a non-SCSI drive. It seemed worth giving it a shot.

4. So I'm still left wondering why my Mac works 2+ is not seeing the ESPROFILE with a "raw" file name profile.image. The ESPROFILE led is green and it is a good working unit.

How the heck do people make their formatted blank .image files if they don't download an already made one.?

[sigma7]

Blu could see "something" (I didn't take a screenshot sorry) but would not low level format. It gave me an error along the lines of this is not a 5 or10 meg profile..

Ok, that makes sense. The "Low Level Format" function is hardware specific, so won't be useful for anything other than a real ProFile or Widget, and is not the same thing as the "initialize" step that the MW installer needs to do.

How the heck do people make their formatted blank .image files if they don't download an already made one?

Try this (found at random via google):

https://pinetools.com/random-file-generator

Since a raw ProFile image block is 532 bytes long (to make a logical sector size at the Mac System level of 512 bytes), I suggest the file length should be a multiple of 532 bytes.

Further, I'd choose a multiple of 256 blocks to make the block count a 'round' number, but this probably doesn't matter.

eg. say you want a 100 MB drive = a logical size about 100,000,000.

Dividing by 512, that makes 195312.5 logical sectors.

Dividing by 256 (to make a 'round' number) that's 762.9395 groups of 256 blocks. Rounding up to 763 groups of 256 we have 195328 blocks.

Multiplying by 532 bytes per block makes the raw file size 103914496 bytes

If that doesn't work, I can make some empty files for you; what size(s) would you like?

edit: To clarify, that only gives you a file of the desired size for the image. It still needs to be "initialized" by the operating system (eg. using the MacWorks Plus II Installer), but it does not need to be "low level formatted".

[bmwcyclist]

Ok, that makes sense. The "Low Level Format" function is hardware specific, so won't be useful for anything other than a real ProFile or Widget, and is not the same thing as the "initialize" step that the MW installer needs to do.


edit: To clarify, that only gives you a file of the desired size for the image. It still needs to be "initialized" by the operating system (eg. using the MacWorks Plus II Installer), but it does not need to be "low level formatted".

Thanks, yes, the BLU use was just a last resort since nothing else seemed to be working as described. I don't think I have low-level formatted a drive since the Novell 2x days, but I did not see much likelihood of harm.

Try this (found at random via google):

https://pinetools.com/random-file-generator

Since a raw ProFile image block is 532 bytes long (to make a logical sector size at the Mac System level of 512 bytes), I suggest the file length should be a multiple of 532 bytes.

Further, I'd choose a multiple of 256 blocks to make the block count a 'round' number, but this probably doesn't matter.

This is GOLDEN, thank you!

Where is the documentation on this? I was using a phone most of the day, so it's easy to miss stuff.

I looked at the GitHub for ESProfile and the PocketBeagle and selector, and if there was a guide to making profile images, I missed it!

If that doesn't work, I can make some empty files for you; what size(s) would you like?

Thank you for the offer! Hopefully, tomorrow, your additional information will work for me, and I will be able to make them on my own.

I think it would be nice to have a downloadable selection of these, though, that was publicly accessible. I know LisaList2 wants to conserve storage, but maybe on one of the other hosts?

If this works, I will take a shot at creating a walk-through for beginners and hope it gets indexed by the search engines.

[bmwcyclist]

Ok!

That worked (mostly).

Issue 1, the online random file generator won't make a 200meg file but did work for a 100mb one.

Is 207,828,992 bytes the correct size for a 200meg file?

200,000,000 / 512 = 390625  (sectors)
390625 / 256 = 1,525.87890625 (groups of 256 blocks)
1526   ×   256 =390,656 (round up to 1526, 390,656 blocks)
390656   ×   532 = 207,828,992 (Multiplying by 532 bytes per block makes the raw file size 207,828,992 bytes)

If we double the size of the 100meg file that worked, we get the same number.

The windows CLI command for making a file is this:
C:\Users\Tim>fsutil file createnew f:\profile.image 207828992
File f:\profile.image is created

Trying that now...

Issue 2, I had to boot the Lisa with an already formatted profile.image file, run the MacWorksII+ utility for the MacWorksII+ program to see the external ESProfile. I then swapped SD cards, hit the reset on the ESProfile and started the format.

[sigma7]

it would be nice to have a downloadable selection of these
...
the online random file generator won't make a 200meg file but did work for a 100mb one.

I should have pointed out that a large file full of zeros will compress (zip) to a small file, whereas the random filled file will not. We can easily host a selection of sizes of compressed zero filled files.

However, it appears fsutil on Windows and dd on Mac/*nix may be sufficient.

Is 207,828,992 bytes the correct size for a 200meg file?

Yes, I think your calculations are correct.

The windows CLI command for making a file is this:

Code: [Select]

fsutil file createnew f:\profile.image 207828992


Super!

I had to boot the Lisa with an already formatted profile.image file, run the MacWorksII+ utility for the MacWorksII+ program to see the external ESProfile. I then swapped SD cards, hit the reset on the ESProfile and started the format.

So this technique may not work, or rather, won't work in some situations. Swapping a connected hard drive with another one while the OS is running is likely to result in a corrupted drive, as the OS usually has some details of the drive stored in memory.

For example, in the case described, the OS will have a list of files that it opened on the drive. When it goes to close them, it could write related stuff to the drive, but it isn't the same drive, so it will be writing that information to the newly formatted drive. Now the new drive is not 'clean' and the original drive that was removed still has files marked as open.

But it may mostly work in this particular case, assuming that the installer re-reads the size of the drive after you swapped SD cards, and expecting it to crash after it is done, since it cannot read the System, Finder, etc. files.

Or perhaps it is the case that no files were opened from the SD card because the System was booted from your SCSI drive. If that's the case, then there is a mystery why the external parallel drive did not show up with the newly created file (requiring you to boot with another SD card installed). Perhaps the ESProFile documentation mentions required specifics regarding file attributes or something like that, or perhaps there is a newer version of its firmware?

[sigma7]

On macOS ... you can use dd to create a blank image in whatever size you'd like.

Code: [Select]

dd if=/dev/zero of=HD200.img bs=1M count=200

IIRC, on quite old versions of *nix, /dev/zero does not exist, but it does go back to quite old versions of OSX, including Tiger.

To implement my suggestion of multiples of 532 bytes, and multiples of 256 blocks:

536 * 256 = 137216 bytes of raw image file per 256 blocks

So one could use:

Code: [Select]

dd if=/dev/zero of=HD.rawimage bs=137216 count=X
Where X is the desired logical size in bytes divided by 128k, since 256 blocks is 128k of logical space in the emulated hard disk.