Reconstructing an auctioned Lisa

[berskyboy]

Did you tell AI that it is a Lisa chassis cable? It seems to think it is a generic one.

That part of the cable looks ok to me, but perhaps you should use your DMM to confirm a couple of signals on the keyboard jack/power button board go to the correct pins on the motherboard's I/O Board socket.

Can't see other connectors on the ribbon cable, so might not be appropriate for the mixed Lisa 1/5 and 2/10 I/O Board configuration.

I do see a Widget power connector, so that makes it a 2/10 chassis originally FYI.

Does it power up with the I/O Board removed?

Here's a photo of all the boards,

Lisa Back
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i2hiofw1dsdzg2alg7jlu/Lisa-Back.HEIC?rlkey=i55sz6kk1pobml73a6cfv390p&st=t872wwhw&dl=0

Lisa CPU
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/viwa9olx10z2qgxr4iiwf/Lisa-CPUs.HEIC?rlkey=9h44vhi7gjiunx0orfbr64cfw&st=53mudtrl&dl=0

Lisa IO
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h9twndkulcidvx4zpdsre/Lisa-IO.HEIC?rlkey=odw1zx17r9cciw07d2dl5qvu7&st=ki4v2aph&dl=0

Lisa Motherboard
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zwfknardblj610p68vg6r/Lisa-Motherboard.HEIC?rlkey=56ic8stt9mb682hebqb3ka6iy&st=xatchreg&dl=0

Lisa RAM
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6cg9ivzgkhxh25nmazhh8/Lisa-RAM.HEIC?rlkey=z8d5v82dnjnc5i4w3bh38f2dr&st=i99a7jif&dl=0

I tried to boot up without IO board still doesn't boot, no sounds.  I will try and use my DMM next test, but not sure where to measure.

[sigma7]

I tried to boot up without IO board still doesn't boot, no sounds.  I will try and use my DMM next test, but not sure where to measure.

Without the I/O Board, there is nothing driving the speaker, and it can't access any peripherals, so don't expect sounds or boot.

Does anything at all happen when you plug it in with everything intact (in place) except the I/O Board missing?

[berskyboy]

Without the I/O Board, there is nothing driving the speaker, and it can't access any peripherals, so don't expect sounds or boot.

Does anything at all happen when you plug it in with everything intact (in place) except the I/O Board missing?

No no sounds, I was trying to heard any clicking, the bulb on the Apple Button / Keyboard Board might be burnt out, should I instead try the 3 and 4th pins with a header and check with the DMM?

EDIT:
Also I wanted to know if this is my Hardware from the photos:

1. The Motherboard / Backplane
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 Motherboard (Part number 620-0108-C is clearly stamped in white ink).
• The Context: This explains the 8-pin or 10-pin confusion. A true 2/10 motherboard does not utilize the loose 9-pin hanging harness bundle for power injection like the Lisa 1/5 did. Instead, the Lisa 2/10 motherboard routes its power channels entirely through the edge slot architecture when the cards slide home.
2. The I/O Board
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 I/O Board (Part number 820-4039-A is visible on the left edge, and the COP421 chip sits on the right).
• The Match: This board is the native electrical partner to your 620-0108-C motherboard.
3. The CPU Card & Memory Boards
• What they are: A standard Lisa CPU board (820-4009-B) housing the purple/gold Motorola 68000, paired with two standard 512K RAM memory boards (820-4010-A).

not sure if AI got it right.

[sigma7]

Also I wanted to know if this is my Hardware from the photos:

1. The Motherboard / Backplane
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 Motherboard (Part number 620-0108-C is clearly stamped in white ink).
• The Context: This explains the 8-pin or 10-pin confusion. A true 2/10 motherboard does not utilize the loose 9-pin hanging harness bundle for power injection like the Lisa 1/5 did. Instead, the Lisa 2/10 motherboard routes its power channels entirely through the edge slot architecture when the cards slide home.
2. The I/O Board
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 I/O Board (Part number 820-4039-A is visible on the left edge, and the COP421 chip sits on the right).
• The Match: This board is the native electrical partner to your 620-0108-C motherboard.
3. The CPU Card & Memory Boards
• What they are: A standard Lisa CPU board (820-4009-B) housing the purple/gold Motorola 68000, paired with two standard 512K RAM memory boards (820-4010-A).

not sure if AI got it right.

No, surprise, AI did not get it right.

It was mostly right for CPU and Memory Boards...
CPU boards come in multiple versions, but for the most part they are all interchangeable. Only the oldest ones produced had the purple/gold ceramic 68000, most have plastic 68000s; since this is in a socket, it can be moved from board to board: this is not a useful identifier.

All the Apple 512K Memory boards are the same, unless it has been modified to be a 2MB board... the modifications are obvious when you see one.

For the I/O Board, it is indeed a 2/10 I/O Board, however the COP421 is not a way to distinguish Lisa I/O Boards as they all have one in the same place. AI made that up, as no-one has ever suggested such a thing. One primary identifier is the 2/10 I/O Board has the three large chips at the top left, the 1/5 I/O Board has two.

The Motherboard is not the 2/10 variety. The primary identifier is the number of DB-25 connectors on the back panel: The 2/10 has two, the 1/5 has three.

The 9 pin connector is for Widget power, it did not exist to provide power to the 1/5 motherboard. Again, AI made that up, as it is completely incorrect.

In the future, my corrections (if any) for AI errors are likely to be limited to "No". By all means use it for suggestions for what to research, but don't trust its advice.

[berskyboy]

Yes,

I agree and sort of dipping my toes in the AI pool to get suggestions but 💯 trust you a human over Ai.  Again I'm so grateful for your help.

I will send more photos later tonight.  I'm thinking maybe I need to put alcohol on all the connectors. 

Got the PSU working now I need to focus on the connectors.

[sigma7]

Glad to help.

There are numerous threads troubleshooting very similar symptoms in the past.

[berskyboy]

Hi good morning sigma7,

I am getting 5V on the first pin of the cable going to the power button and keyboard board.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/djxyem64bql41xh7lrpd6/IMG_3812.jpeg?rlkey=gylliz4h4592g3tdtgdc08f4a&st=7v274zc1&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/igjy89juib3ivkkbwaigy/IMG_3813.jpeg?rlkey=kvosr84z1su75pgahy54u4r73&st=99rl3vzd&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jrlrna9nh1znw2jlrm0p1/IMG_3811.jpeg?rlkey=fxr1d0j6dhl8ct2tr6sqabhs3&st=yblissze&dl=0

maybe my wiring of the cable is not correct?  As this shows the 5V should be on pin 3/4?? or Pin 1/2?

https://lisalist2.com/index.php?topic=550.0

EDIT:
I also plugged in an Apple //c monitor via the RCA cable, no image or anything either.

[sigma7]

I am getting 5V on the first pin of the cable going to the power button and keyboard board.

maybe my wiring of the cable is not correct?  As this shows the 5V should be on pin 3/4?? or Pin 1/2?

The visible part of the cable looks ok, but since it hasn't been tested before, it may not be. If it was at all crooked or offset when the connectors were crimped, there may be hidden problems.

The pin numbers are ambiguous without more detail. The referenced post is saying the 4th position from the end on the top side of the 60 pin card edge connector is connected to the power switch. That's pin 54 of the card edge. J1 on the motherboard schematics show this. That would be the grey wire on your 8 conductor rainbow ribbon, which has the brown wire aligned with pin 60 of J1 (as far as I can tell).

The I/O Board has a pullup resistor on that signal to +5Standby, so the grey wire would show 5.5V or so if the Lisa is fully assembled and plugged in.

This picture of yours shows hex standoffs threaded onto the studs above/below the slot in the 2/10 chassis that is aligned with expansion slot 3. The 2/10 chassis' I've seen have the threaded studs, but not the hex standoffs. I wonder if this indicates something was mounted there, or if these are serendipitous remnants... has anyone else seen these in place or something mounted there?

[berskyboy]

Did you tell AI that it is a Lisa chassis cable? It seems to think it is a generic one.

That part of the cable looks ok to me, but perhaps you should use your DMM to confirm a couple of signals on the keyboard jack/power button board go to the correct pins on the motherboard's I/O Board socket.

Can't see other connectors on the ribbon cable, so might not be appropriate for the mixed Lisa 1/5 and 2/10 I/O Board configuration.

I do see a Widget power connector, so that makes it a 2/10 chassis originally FYI.

Does it power up with the I/O Board removed?

this is a photo of the build from scratch 60 ribbon cable.   

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8ok3ycftk4sxyqbb9eyvn/IMG_3477.jpeg?rlkey=9t4h66t8gs02yvpg4lbuins02&st=b46k32jh&dl=0

The 8 wires go to the left of the connector making the brown wire going to pin near 60, or 09 near the words "Motherboard 6210-010B"

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qfphmvlnj347caxfqx1fh/IMG_3823.jpeg?rlkey=0us5b69hycwvsjjeemyt9bpjf&st=otplzq4r&dl=0

The system doesn't boot with I/O board removed.

EDIT:  I have a classic Apple Lisa chassie
Response from AI:

The classic Apple Lisa 1 / Lisa 2/5 chassis setup explains exactly why the machine is behaving completely dead, even with the green and white wires bridged.
You have a mismatch between your chassis wiring and your power supply model. The classic Lisa chassis was built for the original 1.2A Apple-designed PSU (which uses a standard plastic wiring harness), but you are installing the heavy-duty 1.8A DataPower PSU (which was designed for the later Lisa 2/10 and Macintosh XL).

🚨 The Core Issue: The Backplane Disconnect
On a classic Lisa chassis, the power supply socket on the motherboard backplane does not line up with or map to the 1.8A DataPower knife connectors properly without a physical adapter kit.

1. The Interlock Confusion: On the 1.8A DataPower supply, the green and white wires are designed to route directly to a microswitch mounted on a completely different 2/10-style front frame assembly.
2. Missing Standby Path: Because the classic backplane motherboard expects the pinout of the 1.2A power supply, sliding the 1.8A brick into the back means the critical +5V Standby line and the Power-On command lines are physically landing on dead or completely mismatched tracks on your motherboard.
The power supply is sitting inside the case completely blind. It has AC power, but it cannot talk to your I/O board or your front panel cable because the motherboard traces don't connect them.

EDIT:
And AI keeps telling me the 10pin connector is 180degrees off.

🛠️ The Permanent Fix: Re-aligning Your Cable
You do not need to throw away your ribbon cable. Since you are using insulation-displacement (IDC) rainbow connectors (FC-10P M), you can open the plastic blocks and re-set the wire index layout without soldering:
1. Pop open the Connector Cap: Use a small flathead screwdriver or your fingernail to gently lift the tiny plastic clips on both sides of the black plastic connector plug. (Do this on the connector plug meant for the motherboard backplane end).
2. Flip the Connector Head: Pull the rainbow ribbon cable out of the metal piercing teeth. Rotate the black plastic plug 180 degrees horizontally, and lay the flat ribbon cable back down across the row of teeth.
3. Crimp it Back Down: Use a table vise or a pair of parallel pliers to squeeze the plastic cap firmly until it clicks completely locked. The internal teeth will pierce through the cable insulation in their new, perfectly mirrored positions.
Once flipped, Pin 1 (the dark/striped edge of your rainbow wire) will land precisely on the left side of the plug slots—aligning exactly with your handwritten note on the chassis (<- Pin 1) and completing the missing +5V Standby trace loop.

[sigma7]

There is so much AI BS in there, I wouldn't know where to start.

I suggest using AI to find threads on the internet discussing "my lisa won't turn on", and then read the threads to find and understand troubleshooting steps.

AI's interpretation of them is worse than useless... it is causing damage.

[berskyboy]

I suggest using AI to find threads on the internet discussing "my lisa won't turn on", and then read the threads to find and understand troubleshooting steps.

AI's interpretation of them is worse than useless... it is causing damage.

Yup that's what I thought.  So the real question is do I have a miss-matched hybrid Lisa that needs a converter board (because it has the Widget Drive and Floppy Drive which I will not connect because of the voltage difference). 

Or is there issues with the rainbow connector I created?  What's interesting to me is that I measure 5.5V on pin 1 to pin 2 and 0.02 V on the other pins.  So it seems power is making it from the PSU, to the cable assembly, into the motherboard, then back our the rainbow cable to the button to giving 5.5V.