LisaList2
General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: ried on January 26, 2023, 02:52:25 pm
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I understand that the X/ProFile drive was sold by VintageMicros for a number of years, but they are no longer available for sale:
http://sigmasevensystems.com/xprofile (http://sigmasevensystems.com/xprofile)
(http://sigmasevensystems.com/image/xpfsmall.jpg)
I'm looking for a couple of these, for my Lisa 2 and Apple /// (the latter requires an X/ProFile voltage regulator, too). If anyone has one (or more) of these and would be willing to part with it, please let me know. Thank you :)
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Any reason why the X/ProFile in particular? I'd probably go with a Cameo Aphid these days: https://github.com/stepleton/cameo/blob/master/aphid/README.md
It's a little more DIY, but pretty much all the PCB fab houses also do board assembly, and at least on the Lisa you get the very nice Cameo Selector utility: https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,143.0.html
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Any reason why the X/ProFile in particular? I'd probably go with a Cameo Aphid these days: https://github.com/stepleton/cameo/blob/master/aphid/README.md
Thanks for the informative reply. I do have a very nice Cameo/Aphid drive emulator from ArcaneByte. It's a great external drive solution, especially when paired with the 2-port Parallel Card.
http://www.arcanebyte.com/harddrive-product/
I'm interested in the X/ProFile as an internal drive solution, using the Lisa's internal drive power connector, to replace my non-working Widget. It also more closely matches the layout of the Widget, which I find appealing for an internal solution.
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Thanks for the nice words about Cameo/Aphid :-)
If there winds up being no way to get an X/ProFile, then another option could be the IDEFile http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm . It's closer to the correct shape, although you may have to make some mounting hardware, and you do have to assemble it all yourself. It's a highly reliable device that I've been using for nearly ten years now!
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New X/Profile's are definitely still available for sale and fully supported. I know there is one in-stock ready to go and more available.
PM me and I will get you in touch with the seller.
Rick
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Thanks for the nice words about Cameo/Aphid :-)
If there winds up being no way to get an X/ProFile, then another option could be the IDEFile http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm . It's closer to the correct shape, although you may have to make some mounting hardware, and you do have to assemble it all yourself. It's a highly reliable device that I've been using for nearly ten years now!
Nice to see you here, friend! I did join this forum at your suggestion, so thanks again for directing me. Seems perfect for a geek with a newfound appreciation for the Lisa ;D
That certainly is a neat project, too. I'm afraid it might be a little beyond my abilities at this time, but I'll keep that in mind as a long-term project.
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New X/Profile's are definitely still available for sale and fully supported. I know there is one in-stock ready to go and more available.
PM me and I will get you in touch with the seller.
Rick
Thank you, sir. PM'd.
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Nice to see you here, friend! I did join this forum at your suggestion, so thanks again for directing me. Seems perfect for a geek with a newfound appreciation for the Lisa ;D
Howdy! As long as you're here, you might want to try asking your question about the sick Widget in a new thread, as there are more proficient experts here than me. I hope it's improving...
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Well, thanks to another forum member I was able to purchase an X/ProFile and add it to my Lisa 2/10. Short story: It's fantastic. While I would have liked to get the original Widget working properly, and tried to for weeks, that is unfortunately beyond my hardware (oscilloscope) and skillset at this time. It's something I do plan to continue as a long-term effort, however. I think dialing in the pots to their correct values may still yield a working drive.
But the X/ProFile is also silent and, after listening to the noisy Widget bearings for 80+ hours I was ready for something quieter (so was my wife). Simple to install and easy to swap out the compact flash cards to try different operating systems (Lisa Office System, MacWorks, Xenix, etc.). The activity LED even lines up with the Lisa's front cover perfectly to reflect disk access. Happy that these are available for these wonderful old machines.
(https://i.imgur.com/Xg7MrJg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j4sFMaD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dLruSik.jpg)
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One of these days I'm going to benchmark the IDEFile against the XProfile. The IDEFile seems faster ???
-J
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One of these days I'm going to benchmark the IDEFile against the XProfile. The IDEFile seems faster ???
Some time and effort was spent maximizing the performance of the X/ProFile, I don't think a ProFile emulator could be made much faster than it is. Note that the media used can have a major effect on the speed; there are lots of speed grades of flash cards, and a well worn CF card may write more slowly than it was when new.
A benchmark of all the hard drives would be interesting and perhaps useful. Establishing some kind of test that could be done by anyone would be helpful so rare devices could be included.
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During the IDEfile development I did some speed tests with different hard drives: http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm#benchmarks (http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm#benchmarks)
Today, most people will probably use CF cards or disk-on-modules, which are much faster than hard drives. With these solid-state drives, the transfer time of the ProFile bus interface dominates, the access time of the drive is negligible.
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Just saw that these are now back in stock at VintageMicros:
http://vintagemicros.com/catalog/lisa-xprofile-p-307.html
Here's a shot of my Lisa 2/5 booting Lisa Office System 1.0 from its X/ProFile, too 8)
(https://i.imgur.com/MIUHITw.png)
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Here's a shot of my Lisa 2/5 booting Lisa Office System 1.0 from its X/ProFile, too 8)
Where can I find non-twiggy disk images of LOS 1.0? I want to install it on my 2/10.
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Here's a shot of my Lisa 2/5 booting Lisa Office System 1.0 from its X/ProFile, too 8)
Where can I find non-twiggy disk images of LOS 1.0? I want to install it on my 2/10.
http://vintagemicros.com/catalog/lisa-card-p-315.html
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Where can I find non-twiggy disk images of LOS 1.0? I want to install it on my 2/10.
I am not sure this is possible.. My guess is that this was created by imaging an LOS 1.0 install using a Lisa 1 with twiggy disks onto a real Profile or an X/Profile. You can't create non-twiggy versions of the disk images since the twiggies hold 871K and a Sony 3.5" disk only hold 400K. Even if you had a copy of the profile data, you cant just copy it to Widget drive in a 2/10. While they have similar protocols, Profiles and Widgets communicate a little differently, LOS 1.0 may not support a widget. Folks who use the X/Profile can use this image even with a 2/10 because the X/Profile emulates a Profile (provided the X/Profile is connected to the internal parallel port).
I may be all wrong here, and the smart folks here at LisaList2 please correct me if I am.
Rick
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My 2/10 has an X/Profile inside it. The thing I don't have is a Lisa 1 and the corresponding disks. :/
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As was said, If you have an X/Profile then all you need to run it is the CF card from John:
http://vintagemicros.com/catalog/lisa-card-p-315.html
But if running LOS 1.0 I don't think you will be able to use the floppy in the 2/10 or make disks.
You can create twiggy disk images using BLU if you have a Lisa 1, but there is no twiggy emulator to use these images on a system without a twiggy drive. Also the FDC in the 2/10 is different, and even if you got a twiggy drive you can't connect it to a 2/10.
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As was said,
Apologies - I checked the thread, saw your reply, and didn't scroll down enough to see ried's reply.
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Or if you just want to boot it, here's an image in BLU format: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0_fWRp3VVS4QXNoVmo1UmE4ZkU/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-UErTq8XjaT9DlZw32DLaUQ
Running the apps will probably be a problem owing to the fact that the ones on that image are serialised to my Lisa.
I don't know whether 1.0 will run on a 2/10. I'm curious to know what happens when you stick a disk in the floppy drive of a Lisa 2 running 1.0.
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Running the apps will probably be a problem owing to the fact that the ones on that image are serialised to my Lisa.
Here's a ProFile BLU image of LOS 1.2, with all 7 apps installed. They should all be deserialized.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcvw5pabmqf3zwm/LOS%201.2%20%287%20tools%29.blu.img?dl=0
Also interested to hear how this goes. This is the first I've heard of running LOS 1.X on anything but a Twiggy Lisa. Please report back your findings!
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I think I tested a 2/10 with an Xprofile 5Mb image of LOS1 installed from emulator and LOS1 widget images : it fails to boot
I can re-test if needed.
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You may need to swap out the 0175 and 0176 ROMs for the D version on the CPU board, and swap out the Disk ROM for the Twiggy version on the I/O board. I am not sure if you need to solder the resistors at R41 and R47 unless you're using actual Twiggy drives, but that would complete the conversion from a Lisa 2/5 to a Lisa 1.
I do not know what is required for a Lisa 2/10 to run LOS 1.0, or if that is even possible, given the additional hardware changes.
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You may need to ...
R41 on the Lisa 1 I/O board was a pull-up on the ProFile BSY signal (unrelated to floppy disks).
R47 on the Lisa 1 I/O board was a pull-down on the floppy SNS signal, which is used for detecting "disk in place", eject button press, and write protect. The 3.5" Sony drive combines this signal with read-data & R47 is removed to avoid unnecessary loading of the signal. I expect R47 is not required if a Twiggy isn't actually connected/used, but it could be that the floppy disk controller will be stuck looking for the ghost of an inserted disk and LOS will complain... an experiment is in order.
The Sapient Lisa 1 + 2/5 I/O Board has a jumper that switches the EPROM version and R47 between the Twiggy and 3.5" Floppy configurations, which simplifies changing between them (just move the jumper and swap disk drives, no need to change EPROMs & re/desolder R47).
The 2/10 I/O Board appears to have been designed with the possibility that it might be used with Twiggies. It has a SNS signal (with the R47 pull-down), which is used or not depending on whether a card edge "Twiggy Detect" pin is grounded or not (it is grounded on the 2/10 motherboard, but not on the Lisa 1 motherboard). The Twiggy Detect also switches the addressing of the FDC EPROM to select the upper half of a double-size ROM (a 2764 vs. the usual 2732 used on the I/O Boards). Presumably this was so the newer (2/10) I/O Board could be used in a Lisa 1. However, the double size ROM for the 2/10 board has never been seen AFAIK.
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I found a neat way to get LOS 1.2 installed on my external ProFile drive that may be helpful for someone. Note that I used a Lisa 2/10 for this process.
You'll need a Lisa 2/10 with an internal X/ProFile, as well as the LOS 3.1 and 1.2 CF cards from VintageMicros, and a 3.5" floppy with BLU 0.9.
1. Install the Parallel Expansion Card (if you don't already have one installed).
2. Attach external ProFile drive(s) to the expansion card port(s). Switch them on.
3. Boot the Lisa 2/10 into LOS 3.1 from the internal X/ProFile. (Just use the LOS 3.1 CF card that comes with the X/ProFile.)
4. After the Lisa boots, the ProFiles will complete their self-test and show a steady red "Ready" LED. They will not mount on the LOS desktop until the next boot, so reboot the Lisa.
5. After rebooting, LOS will prompt you to format the ProFile(s) (if not previously formatted). Go ahead and do that. Note: This may not be necessary, but I did it anyway. LOS will subsequently mount the drive(s) on the desktop.
6. Open Preferences and set the Lisa to boot from the floppy drive.
7. Power off the Lisa.
8. Insert BLU floppy disk.
9. Remove the LOS 3.1 CF card and insert the LOS 1.2 (or 1.0) CF card. In my case, both cards were STAR Mode = 3 / Target = 0 cards. I did not have to change the settings on the X/ProFile. I'm not sure if that matters.
10. Power on the Lisa.
11. BLU will boot as usual. Use the hard disk function to copy disk to disk, i.e. from the internal parallel port to the appropriate external upper or lower parallel port.
Done. In my case, I have a Lisa 2/5 that has been modified with the R41 and R47 resistors and the appropriate CPU and IO ROMs to create a Lisa 1. Hooked up the newly created LOS 1.2 ProFile to its built-in parallel port and boom! Lisa Office System 1.2 booting on an attached ProFile drive.
Hopefully this helps someone trying to achieve a similar result.
(https://i.imgur.com/T0jagOo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RFla8ey.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z1WNNV6.jpg)