LisaList2
General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: wagbox on February 15, 2024, 03:46:41 am
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My Lisa 2/10 has had its IO board replaced so it has A8 ROMs. Anyone have experience getting their FloppyEmu to work with such a setup?
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My Lisa 2/10 has had its IO board replaced so it has A8 ROMs.
A 2/10 I/O Board normally has an 88 ROM. If one puts an A8 ROM in a 2/10 I/O Board (ie. mismatch the I/O ROM and the I/O Board), the floppy won't work.
If the replacement board is a 2/5 I/O Board, then the A8 ROM is the appropriate match for the board, however, the 2/10 will be missing the Lite Adapter (which mounts in the drive cage of a 2/5), so the PWM speed signal to the floppy drive will be missing, preventing it from working.
To resolve this you could add the Lite Adapter between the Floppy Drive (FEMU) and the 20 pin ribbon cable in the Lisa 2/10 chassis. However, this is non-trivial as the Lite Adapter is designed for the 26 pin cable of the 2/5 chassis, so you will need to fabricate some kind of adapter/modification to use the Lite Adapter with the 2/10 chassis.
AFAIK, currently there is no posting for how to modify the Lite Adapter/cabling to use a 2/5 I/O Board in a 2/10 chassis (although there is a posting for how to modify the Lite Adapter to use a 2/10 I/O Board in a 2/5 chassis).
The 2/10 and 2/5 I/O Boards are easily distinguished by the larger chips at the top left of the board. The 2/10 I/O Board has three, the 2/5 I/O Board has two.
edit: I've assumed the FEMU needs the PWM signal, I've now realized that I'm not certain that is the case, but it seems a likely suspect for the problem.
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Right. For whatever reason, this 2/10 has a 2/5 IO board.
Everything you have said lines up with the research I've done so far; I feel stuck since I have no idea how to adapt the Lite Adapter for the 2/10. Is there anyone on this board who would be able to help with such a specific matter?
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For whatever reason, this 2/10 has a 2/5 IO board.
... no idea how to adapt the Lite Adapter for the 2/10.
I (and no doubt others too) will be pleased to help. I suggest we discuss off-list and post the results.
I have sent you an email.
If anyone else wants to participate in the discussion, let us know and we can CC or make it a separate topic on-list.
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Time is increasingly becoming a valuable commodity for me until VCFSW is over and some other projects are behind me, so I can't do much on this. However...
For those taking a crack at this, feel free to use and expand upon work I've already completed (https://github.com/warmech/lisa-lisalite). Never thought anyone would get any use out of this thing but now it looks like someone might! Heck, if someone wants to figure out what's needed to adapt this and can provide me updates to the schematic, I can probably spare some time to draw an updated PCB for it; can't imagine it would take that long. In any case, good luck and Godspeed.
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It's really odd that this isn't just working for you as-is! I've got my Floppy Emu hooked straight to a 2/5 I/O board right now, using one of these (https://github.com/RolandJuno/Lisa_Breakout) cool card cage breakout boards, and it works perfectly, without a Lite Adapter or anything in between. And there isn't any hardware that modifies the floppy signals on the breakout board either. Unless I'm missing something obvious here, I don't see any reason why the same thing wouldn't apply in an actual 2/10 chassis.
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I've got my Floppy Emu hooked straight to a 2/5 I/O board right now, using one of these (https://github.com/RolandJuno/Lisa_Breakout)
I see that RolandJuno's Breakout Board makes no connection to pin 20 of the floppy connector, which is where the PWM speed signal would be.
I suspect this confirms that the Floppy Emu doesn't need the PWM signal (come to think of it, maybe the 800k drive didn't use it either, only the 400k?), in which case, OP's issue seems unrelated to the Lite Adapter.
Perhaps the Floppy Emu software version is relevant?
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Just to confirm: You have flashed your Floppy Emu with the Macintosh and Lisa firmware and have it in Lisa mode, correct?
https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/#firmware
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQgiXm7Xhg
Here is a video demonstrating my process. I have flashed the FloppyEmu with the newest firmware update. Let me know if there is something I am doing wrong
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Since you are using MacWorks, try using the Floppy Emu's Macintosh mode (rather than Lisa).
I think that rainbow cable is not a stock Lisa cable...? I wonder if that could also be a contributing factor?
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Since you are using MacWorks, try using the Floppy Emu's Macintosh mode (rather than Lisa).
On this point, If I want to setup Xenix, Uniplus Unix, or any other non-Apple OS, should I be in Macintosh mode or Lisa mode? Yesterday I was trying to install both Xenix and Unix in Lisa mode and I was having some disk errors installing files from Xenix floppy images and a couple issues getting Unix to finish installing. Not sure if it's me, the disk images, or the floppy emu :/
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I think that rainbow cable is not a stock Lisa cable...? I wonder if that could also be a contributing factor?
Both of my 2/10s came with that exact same rainbow cable and they work great with the Floppy Emu, so I think it might be stock in certain systems.
Since you are using MacWorks, try using the Floppy Emu's Macintosh mode (rather than Lisa).
I'm pretty sure you need it in Lisa mode even in MacWorks, right? Or at least that's how I have mine set up. I think the mode accounts for differences between the floppy controller hardware in the Mac and the Lisa, not differences between the operating systems themselves.
On this point, If I want to setup Xenix, Uniplus Unix, or any other non-Apple OS, should I be in Macintosh mode or Lisa mode?
Going off what I said above, I always keep mine in Lisa mode and it works fine with every OS that was made for the Lisa, so maybe something's weird with your disk images!
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Yep, the manual says to keep it in Lisa mode (although I've tried Macintosh mode before with the same results). Honestly, thinking there might be something up with the Emu. I've never used it on another machine since it just came with the Lisa. I'll try it on a Macintosh once I get near my collection again...
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I think that rainbow cable is not a stock Lisa cable...? I wonder if that could also be a contributing factor?
Both of my 2/10s came with that exact same rainbow cable and they work great with the Floppy Emu, so I think it might be stock in certain systems.
I am confused here. Are you saying that your internal Lisa 2/10 ( card-cage to floppy, widget, keyboard/power sw) cable is a rainbow cable? I have never seen that before, can you post a photo?
Rick
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I am confused here. Are you saying that your internal Lisa 2/10 ( card-cage to floppy, widget, keyboard/power sw) cable is a rainbow cable? I have never seen that before, can you post a photo?
I'm just talking about the floppy cable within the drive cage itself, like what @wagbox shows in the video. The actual wire harness that connects the floppy, Widget, keyboard, and power switch to the card cage is just a normal single-color ribbon, but the floppy cable within the drive bay is different. I'll send a picture when I get home later this evening.
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... the floppy cable within the drive cage itself ...
It's been so long since I've seen a 2/10 in it's original state I'd forgotten all about this (and a whole lot of other things as you've all prolly noticed from my posts -- apologies for the errors).
On the 2/10, the rear of the floppy drive is difficult to access in the drive cage as there isn't much space below the Widget, and the cooling fan is partially obstructing it.
So to make it easier to disconnect/remove the drive cage, there is a short 20 pin ribbon cable extension (about 6" / 15cm long) with a flanged male connector mounted to the rear of the drive cage beside the fan, and a female connector that plugs into the drive. When you remove the drive cage, this short cable goes with it. The cable in the chassis plugs into this extension rather than the drive itself.
On my 2/10, this short extension is indeed a rainbow ribbon cable, whereas the chassis mounted ribbon cables are all grey.
edit: since this is a straight through extension, OP could eliminate this as a potential source of problems by connecting the FEMU directly to the grey chassis cable.
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... the floppy cable within the drive cage itself ...
It's been so long since I've seen a 2/10 in it's original state I'd forgotten all about this (and a whole lot of other things as you've all prolly noticed from my posts -- apologies for the errors).
On the 2/10, the rear of the floppy drive is difficult to access in the drive cage as there isn't much space below the Widget, and the cooling fan is partially obstructing it.
So to make it easier to disconnect/remove the drive cage, there is a short 20 pin ribbon cable extension (about 6" / 15cm long) with a flanged male connector mounted to the rear of the drive cage beside the fan, and a female connector that plugs into the drive. When you remove the drive cage, this short cable goes with it. The cable in the chassis plugs into this extension rather than the drive itself.
On my 2/10, this short extension is indeed a rainbow ribbon cable, whereas the chassis mounted ribbon cables are all grey.
edit: since this is a straight through extension, OP could eliminate this as a potential source of problems by connecting the FEMU directly to the grey chassis cable.
I tried that actually, but nothing changed. I'll have to try the Emu on one of my Macs at my parents' place