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2022.06.03 added links to LisaList1 and LisaFAQ to the General Category

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 11 
 on: September 18, 2022, 01:40:31 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
Alright! Here's a clue to what I think is going on. That "Good things to know about Lisa" document has proven pretty useful here.

In reference to copy protection, that document says:
"Protected Lisa software distributed by Apple includes all Lisa tools, except for LisaWrite and LisaProject 3.1"

In reference to upgrading a hard disk from LOS 3.0 to 3.1, it says:
"Replace the LisaWrite and LisaProject tools and stationary pads on the hard disk with the updated versions."

In reference to migrating documents from Lisa -> Mac, it says:
"There is only one version of the Migration software and it is intended to be used with Office System 7/7 Version 3.1".

Looking at the versions floating around online and going through their disk images with a hex editor, I've found that only LisaProject and LisaWrite Disk 1/2 reference being version 3.1. All of this makes me inclined to believe that LisaProject and LisaWrite (by updating one disk of the two) were the only 2 tools updated from 3.0 to 3.1, perhaps to support the Lisa -> Macintosh migration that only ran in 3.1, but also with the side effect of removing copy protection for those two specific tools.

 12 
 on: September 18, 2022, 01:22:26 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
Try this for 3.0: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/lisa-office-system-30

I just did on a fresh ProFile image through LisaEm - it installs Lisa Office System 3.1 (as shown on the splash screen when booting).

From the "Good things to know about Lisa" doc - it's a known quirk that the 3.1 installer disks report themselves as being "3.0", and the only true way to know is to check the splash screen on boot.

 13 
 on: September 18, 2022, 12:55:50 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by rayarachelian
Try this for 3.0: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/lisa-office-system-30

 14 
 on: September 18, 2022, 11:34:10 am 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
I think there's some bug fixes for 3.1 that weren't in 3.0, there's a piece of paper somewhere that documents these fixes, off the top of my head one is around printing.

The apps that are on the TechIS CD which contains DART versions of LOS 3.1 comes with apps versioned as 3.0 and I don't think I saw them labeled 3.1 - there might be one or two of the apps (well, tools in the right Lisa nomenclature) that are versioned 3.1. But for sure, the USA OS, but not the installer disks say 3.1.

There are some differences mentioned in the "Good things to know about Lisa" doc: http://www.repairyourmac.com/lisa/goodthings.pdf

I'll have to look more closely at the CD contents (that you posted in the Files section). The 3.1 installer disks from that archive throw an error when I try to load them in LisaEm, sadly.
I found a picture online of a real Lisa booting "Office System 3.0", but the fact remains that I can't find any disk image online that actually installs that version, only 3.1. The hunt continues, I suppose. If anyone finds any disk images that install 3.0, please let me know.

 15 
 on: September 18, 2022, 09:35:29 am 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by rayarachelian
I think there's some bug fixes for 3.1 that weren't in 3.0, there's a piece of paper somewhere that documents these fixes, off the top of my head one is around printing.

The apps that are on the TechIS CD which contains DART versions of LOS 3.1 comes with apps versioned as 3.0 and I don't think I saw them labeled 3.1 - there might be one or two of the apps (well, tools in the right Lisa nomenclature) that are versioned 3.1. But for sure, the USA OS, but not the installer disks say 3.1.

The 7/7 nomenclature does come from bundling the apps. I don't know if the apps were sold separately, possibly with the early releases they were. But 3.1 came as a boxed set complete with spiral bound 7 tool manuals, the Lisa Owner's Guide and a "book" that holds the floppies. Unlike the 1.x and 2.0 3-ring binder ones, these are not modifiable by the end user, I suppose indicating that these are complete/final. You can see the photos in this auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175395193592 for the 3.1 manuals/disks.

There's also a very famous poster with 7 comets that represent the apps, but it shows a Lisa 1...  In fact, there's one on ebay right now.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/374250920844 for an arm and a leg. (I do own one one of these.)

The 2.0 and possibly 1.0 ones came with the larger 3 ring binders. If you own these or see the PDFs of them you'll see something strange, example the binder LisaCalc for 2.0 is huge vs the one for 3.1, no idea what was removed or shrunk down, but you could sit and read through the PDFs and see for yourself. You can see an example of the 2.0 binders in this auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175393049907

One of the interesting things about the 2.0 binders is that peripherals such as the ImageWriter, 2 Port Parallel Card, the DaisyWheel printer, and ProFile drive came with pages that you would then insert into the 3 ring binder - likely the Owner's Guide. Some of the update sheets would also fit there, though some came stapled (at least the ones I have, some are stapled, not sure if by the previous owner vs Apple Computer Inc.)


 16 
 on: September 18, 2022, 09:23:00 am 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
While building my LOS software archive recently, I've come across a lot of confusion about later versions of the Lisa Office System that I want to attempt to clear up once and for all in one place.

We know that LOS 3.0 and 3.1 existed as distinct pieces of software, and that changes were made in 3.1 to support the Lisa -> Mac migration. However...


1. All of the LOS 3.0 install disks I've found through the major software archive sites online are identical to LOS 3.1 (and when installed in LisaEm, they all report version 3.1 on the startup splash screen). I assume this wouldn't be true for the actual LOS 3.0... so does anyone have install disks that are actually for LOS 3.0?

The Italian versions I found the other day and posted in the Files section report "3.0T" and "3.1T" on the startup screen, so it looks like there was at least a distinction there.

2. Do we have any hard evidence that there were two versions of each of the *tools* for 3.0 and 3.1, or just the OS? The same software archive problem goes for these - sometimes tools on disk images labeled "3.1" are exactly identical to tools on images labeled "3.0".

3. Is it correct to say that Apple started referring to LOS and its bundled tools as "7/7" upon the release of LOS 3.0, and this naming convention also applied later to 3.1?

 17 
 on: September 16, 2022, 04:36:05 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
When searching online earlier, I found Lisa Office System 3.1 and (partial) Lisa Office System 3.0 in Italian on a different forum, posted earlier this year. I've deserialized the disks (and in the case of 3.1, made a bootable ProFile disk image that can be used in LisaEm), and uploaded them in the Files section.

 18 
 on: September 14, 2022, 07:36:36 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by rayarachelian
Yup confirmed, LisaEm RC4 breaks LOS 2.x installs, installer says can't write to ProFile, contact your service person, etc. Not sure what exactly I broke and when, but looking. Not sure about RC3a, but that might also be suspect.

 19 
 on: September 14, 2022, 07:07:54 pm 
Started by fri0701 - Last post by fri0701
Using an older version of LisaEm, I was able to successfully install LOS and all of the applications from these disks! I posted a ProFile image usable in LisaEm in the Files board.


 20 
 on: September 13, 2022, 10:17:37 pm 
Started by rayarachelian - Last post by rayarachelian
I went to David's Presentation at VFC Midwest.  Lots of folks asking him when the documentary will be done, but he would not commit to a release date.   Steven was there also,  he announced he had just bought his first Lisa that day, don't know what other experience Steven has had with Lisa.  David did show some video from Rays interview :) .   Although the progress has been slow on this project, it's nice to know that it's not dead.
Rick

Thanks Rick. I was hoping VCFMW would do a livestream, like VCF East, but no such luck, did want to see some of the other sessions as well. Hopefully they'll wind up on youtube. I did see the 1st part off the kickstarter update that David sent out the day after.

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