LisaList2

General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: byteshop on September 25, 2023, 12:10:30 am

Title: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: byteshop on September 25, 2023, 12:10:30 am
Hey all. Someone posted this to one of the facebook groups tonight: "Good evening group! Does anyone know what kind of Apple computer this is? I bought a home in Albuquerque, NM from a man who was an original apple employee in Cupertino (I found his ID) and I found this under a false floor panel in a closet. Very "Sherlock 😂" I know, but it's a true story. Anyway, just wondering.."

Seems to be two Twiggy based Lisa 2 proto front panels and a complete Lisa 2. Has anyone seen one of these before?

 
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: ried on September 25, 2023, 01:52:52 am
Truly remarkable find. Under the floorboard in a closet, no less! I don't think this front bezel has ever been seen publicly before. The design seems a little hasty and awkward, with the upper drive number and space for its eject button remaining in place next to the vent. That should have been removed :)

Was this bezel for a prototype Lisa 2/10 with an internal ProFile (Pepsi) or Widget drive paired with a single Twiggy drive? Interesting configuration.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: andrew on September 25, 2023, 07:05:40 pm
This really is incredible. New discoveries like this are rare.

The panel couldn't have been made after the decision to give the Lisa 2 series Sony drives like the Macintosh, which places it before Late 1983. Given this could have been for either an internal Profile or Widget drive, that leaves some wiggle room for when this could have been produced. Maybe this was a Lisa "1/10" panel?


Obviously, the engineers realized they needed much more ventilation for the hard drive than what this panel has.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: compu_85 on September 25, 2023, 09:00:58 pm
I bet that was used with the internal mount ProFiles...

-J
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: stepleton on September 25, 2023, 11:16:20 pm
That's my guess too --- I'd expect that Widgets weren't exactly ready for production when this bezel was made.

The Lisa 2 designers may have found a need for more vents, but the Lisa 2 vent style may also a better match for the design language of contemporary Apple products, I think. This prototype bezel is like a glimpse of what the Lisa 2 might have been if Snow White had never happened. See also Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White_design_language#Unofficial_designs), for what that's worth.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: compu_85 on September 26, 2023, 10:30:30 am
Not widget - Profile. There exist photos of an internal mount ST-506 drive - I think AlexTheCat even has one.

-J
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: AlexTheCat123 on September 26, 2023, 10:37:34 am
Quote
Not widget - Profile. There exist photos of an internal mount ST-506 drive - I think AlexTheCat even has one.

Yep, I sure do! It's so cool to see the type of bezel that probably once covered my drive! I wonder how many of these prototype front panels were made?
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: stepleton on September 26, 2023, 10:57:18 am
Not widget - Profile. There exist photos of an internal mount ST-506 drive

Yes, that was my point --- I was aiming to support your hypothesis with an additional hypothesis that Widgets likely wouldn't have been ready yet.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: ried on September 26, 2023, 11:01:21 am
Quote
Not widget - Profile. There exist photos of an internal mount ST-506 drive - I think AlexTheCat even has one.

Yep, I sure do! It's so cool to see the type of bezel that probably once covered my drive! I wonder how many of these prototype front panels were made?

Since these are marked "SAMPLE" there were probably only a handful produced for testing purposes. Sure would be something if you could recreate the test configuration with this bezel, your internal ProFile drive and a Twiggy - with the appropriate mounting hardware. Might even be able to get a working system out of it  8)
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: compu_85 on September 26, 2023, 02:17:51 pm
I wonder if that's what the unused power plug, and passthrough from the drive cage to the expansion slots was intended for...
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: sigma7 on September 26, 2023, 03:45:16 pm
I wonder if that's what the unused power plug, and passthrough from the drive cage to the expansion slots was intended for...

Both are still quite a mystery to me; IIRC, only the 2/10 chassis has the mystery passthrough, and only the 1/5 cabling has the mystery power plug; but maybe there is some overlap.

The passthrough appears to be sized/positioned for a chassis mounted 60 contact card edge socket, which a card in expansion slot 3 would plug into. Perhaps the Widget controller was potentially expected to be an expansion card, such that the combination allowed fitting the mechanism above a Twiggy.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: ried on September 26, 2023, 10:50:18 pm
Adding the other photos of these prototype bezels here for posterity. Interesting that one of the samples is dated 1/3/1983, so we know Apple was working on the internal ProFile configuration before the Lisa 1 was even introduced on 1/19/1983.

(https://i.imgur.com/NP70R04.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0PyGoL1.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: fri0701 on October 14, 2023, 10:03:11 pm
I've been talking to the woman who found these bezels alongside what seems to be a stock 2/10. She's interested in having someone experienced examine the Lisa itself and attempt to dump the contents of its Widget drive to see if it holds any interesting information. She'd prefer someone in the Dallas or Austin, TX area, presumably to avoid shipping anything so old and fragile.
Is anyone here located around that area and able to help? If so, feel free to send me a message with an email address and I can forward it along.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: jamesdenton on October 15, 2023, 03:59:22 am
I'm in San Antonio but PM'd ya anyway if you don't have any closer options.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: warmech on October 15, 2023, 01:09:11 pm
I'm up in DFW; I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: fri0701 on October 23, 2023, 07:05:05 pm
Thanks for offering, both of you! I'll pass along both of your contacts.
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: jamesdenton on October 27, 2023, 08:00:00 pm
Now that we know these faceplates exist, is it possible the extra connectors off the wire harness in the 2/5 could've been used for the Profile(?) hard drive in the upper bay?
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: AlexTheCat123 on October 28, 2023, 11:08:16 am
Quote
Now that we know these faceplates exist, is it possible the extra connectors off the wire harness in the 2/5 could've been used for the Profile(?) hard drive in the upper bay?

My internal ProFile just uses the Widget power connector, but maybe some older versions of it exist that used the 2/5 connector?
Title: Re: Possible Lisa (2?) Twiggy Prototype Discovered
Post by: patrick on October 28, 2023, 04:52:46 pm
The 3 pin connector provides +12 V, Gnd, and a power good signal. A ProFile also needs -12 V and +5 V.