LisaList2
General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: ried on June 03, 2024, 04:01:11 pm
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Hi all. A friend of mine recently came across a bundle of Twiggy disks that were owned by an Apple engineer in 1981-83. The disks appear to have been used and erased several times, and most recently used as backup disks. The interesting part is that these disks came with printouts: a list of files contained in the backups. There are several eyebrow-raising files listed here, including Apple UniFile and DuoFile disk drivers, files in the Apple ///'s SOS file format, and more. This gentleman and I are both interested in ensuring that these disks are imaged and archived, so any thoughts on what these disks contain would be greatly appreciated.
Hopefully these disks contain items that were either lost or unknown to the community until now. Pretty neat find in any case 8)
Full gallery: https://imgur.com/a/mrcVaRo
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... interested in ensuring that these disks are imaged and archived
Intriguing for sure... if you don't already have a Lisa 1 lined up to archive them, I expect we can find a volunteer to help... approximately where are you located?
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I do have a Lisa 1, but no direct experience archiving Twiggies. This gentleman is located in the San Francisco Bay Area. Do we have anyone up there in Silicon Valley that would be able to help?
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... anyone up there in Silicon Valley that would be able to help?
We don't have many locations listed in the "Twiggy Archiving - List of Lisas w. Twiggy drives, by location" (https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,99.0.html) thread yet... more volunteers needed, please!
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Very happy to help, but unless the owner travels to London with some frequency, there are likely to be much more convenient options!
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If you have a Lisa 1, you should be able to archive them with Basic Lisa Utility!
-J
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Thank you, all. I think we have a solution at hand. More to come.
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Good news: Thanks to sigma7, we have 100% complete images of most disks, including the entire 6-part backup dated 5/19/83. I do not know how he accomplished this, or how to extract individual files from the .dc42 backup disk images he created, but hopefully someone else in the community does. I would imagine that someone needs to write all 6 of the images to actual Twiggy disks and then run a restore program of some kind (onto a ProFile?).
Looking at the list of files contained in the backup, I suspect it was created on an Apple /// using a UniFile or DuoFile drive. That would explain all of the Apple /// software, SOSfiles, etc.
https://imgur.com/a/apple-lisa-fileware-twiggy-backup-disks-mrcVaRo
What does everyone else think? Were these backups made on an Apple /// with a Twiggy drive attached? Or on a Lisa?
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It's hard to say for certain without the disk images themselves. With those in hand, it should not be too hard to determine whether the filesystem is from Lisa OS or the Monitor or whether it's an Apple /// filesystem (from SOS I suppose).
The first thing I'd try naively would be to boot the Workshop or the Monitor on my Lisa 1 and try to mount physical copies of the disks.
There is a chance that the disks are from Apple /// Pascal and so use a P-system sort of filesystem. The Monitor uses a similar filesystem, though I haven't investigated how compatible they are. But if it's a P-system filesystem, then there are some utilities for modern computers that may be able to make sense of it.
If we do hypothesise a mutually-compatible filesystem (i.e. something that could be read by both /// and Lisa), then a next step would be to look for signs of byte order inside the files. The /// is a little-endian machine, while the Lisa is a big-endian computer.
But there's one final consideration:
The file listing appears to show a hierarchical directory structure with / as the directory separator. With the exception of the Unixes, no Lisa operating system to my knowledge supported hierarchical filesystems until version 3.0 of the Lisa OS (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/workshop_3.0/Release_3.0_Notes_for_the_Operating_System_Reference_Manual_for_the_Lisa.pdf) (PDF page 3). Furthermore, this OS used - as the directory separator.
But SOS on the Apple 3 had a hierarchical filesystem with / as the separator. (https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Software/Operating%20Systems/Apple%20SOS/Manuals/Apple%20III%20SOS%20Reference%20Manual.pdf) (PDF pages 40-41)
So I think these are properly Apple /// disks with SOS filesystems. There are probably access tools for modern computers out there --- you wouldn't need to use vintage hardware. But if there aren't, the PDF linked just above appears to have quite detailed information about the SOS filesystem, enough that I'd be optimistic about pulling files from these disk images with some Python code and a rainy weekend.
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Disk images uploaded to the files section:
Justins Twiggies 2024 (https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,516.msg3626.html#msg3626)
They may be deleted once they appear on BitSavers (thanks Al!) to save our limited space/traffic.
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Even just running the strings command on disk images turns up interesting things:
#Apple /// Pascal Compiler [A3/1.0 ]
(C) Apple Computer, 1983. Disk /// Formatter Driver.g
!Name of Apple Writer /// volume :
@Insert APPLE WRITER /// UTILITIES diskette in built-in drive and
PROGRAM DOSTRAN;
-(* COPYRIGHT 1980 *)
-(* APPLE COMPUTER *)
-(* ALL RIGHTS RESERVED *)
-(* 12 SEPTEMBER 1980 *)
-(* JIM STEIN *)
"(* TRANSFER FILES BETWEEN PASCAL *)
"(* DISKETTES AND DOS3.3 DISKETTES *)
Someone's homework?
{E** P. G**, MATH 4700-3, due 28 April 1983}
{This program is a stack oriented Virtual Machine Simulator that executes
RPN internal source code. The program instructions and data are loaded into
separate arrays from disk files.}
Hmm --- there's someone's Apple performance evaluation here. There might be some personal info on these disks that maybe ought to be treated with care.
Anyway, there's clearly a lot of Apple /// stuff in these backups.
Admin edit: name redacted
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Random.dc42 has what looks like source code for the LisaWrite spellchecker:
{----------------------}
FUNCTION startSpelling: TF;
{----------------------}
(*Init Houghton-Mifflin's spelling software. If something goes wrong, give an
appropriate alert and return FALSE. If all goes well, read in all dialog box
check forms from {T1}Dbox.text, set up some constant strings for later use,
and return TRUE.*)
This same text is found in APPS/APLW/APLW-UNITSPELL.TEXT.unix.txt in the Lisa source code released by CHM.
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Moving on to Level II Video Board 4_22_83.dc42, I think it's more than what's found in the Hardware Reference Manual, at least as far as I'm familiar with it:
The following procedure will show an individual how to diagnose a problem on a video board. These procedures are in three sections:
o Section I - describes how the video board works. It is adopted from the Lisa Hardware Manual.
o Section II - describes (section by section) procedures for troubleshooting a video problem.
o Section III - contains the appendicies. The Appendicies are:
o Appendix A - list of the possible video problems and the area or component that might cause them.
o Appendix B - list of components most likely to fail.
o Appendix C - list of components and their position on the video board.
o Appendix D - video board schematic
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LisaTerminal, Crossley 5__.dc42 has very few ASCII strings that look like English text; mainly some phrase file contents for LisaTerminal.
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Backup.Volume[12]/Backup.Volume1.dc42: Software for some financial function? Probably Apple /// as a lot of the backup disks appear to be. From the program's help function (one assumes):
H H EEEEEEEEE L PPPPPPPP !
H H E L P P !
H H E L P P !
HHHHHHHHH EEEEEEE L PPPPPPPP !
H H E L P !
H H E L P
H H EEEEEEEEE LLLLLLLLL P !
Also some kind of demo for Apple /// productivity software.
Backup.Volume[12]/Backup.Volume2.dc42: continues the above.
********************************************************************
* *
* Apple /// Managers Solutions Demo *
* by *
* Pete Burnight *
* *
********************************************************************
This software helps managers stay in the game!
a$="Managers stay in the game":secs=3:
300:a$="by being on top of the":secs=0:
300:a$="information they manage.":
Later....
$APPLE /// BUSINESS SYSTEMS (C)1982
Enter Today's Date (mm/dd/yy).
Enter Correct Time (hh:mm)....
You Are at Floppy Disk Control
________________________________
````````~ ```````~ ````````
`` `\ `` `` ``
```````` ```````\ ``
`` `~ `` ``
````````\ `` ````````
________________________________
S Y S T E M S
________________________________
Moving on...
+ __________________________________________
,| Apple /// Pascal 1.1 |
,|__________________________________________|
Current date is
!(C) Apple Computer Inc. 1981,1982
(C) U.C. Regents 1979
Version: Nov. 1982
Based on U.C.S.D. Pascal II.1
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Backup[12] Spring.zip brings us back to Lisa disks.
On Backup1 Spring.dc42, we have contents also found in APPS/APLW/aplw-dm68k.text.unix.txt and elsewhere in the CHM Lisa source. Several mentions of a Hungarian Dictionary (can you even type ő on a Lisa?).
Interesting string: Lotus: the word-processor (not window mgr) part of LisaWriteL&
This is an interesting one --- strings suggest maybe a document or a diagram describing how LisaWrite works?
More spellchecker source code.
Some contents also found in APPS/APLW/aplw-unitldialog.text.unix.txt. TIL that LisaWrite was code-named Lotus; the term keeps coming up.
On Backup2 Spring.dc42, more LisaWrite (nee Lotus) source code by the looks of it. The files appear like they may be earlier versions of files in the CHM release: lots of the source files have dated lists of changes at the top, and many dates for the files on this disk don't go later than January 1984. The CHM files have plenty of dates for Feb 1984 and a few March and April too.
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That'll be it from me for now --- it's bedtime here. There's probably more undiscovered stuff: the strings command is about the most basic data exploration tool there is. To sum up:
Backup[123456] 5_19_83.zip --- Apple /// backup. Has backup of work from an Apple employee who worked in technical documentation. Contains some personal correspondence and maybe also schoolwork. A copy of the Lisa Hardware Manual dated April '83 is present.
Backup[12] Spring.zip --- Lisa formatted. Some LisaWrite source and potentially documents describing theory of operation.
Backup.Volume[12].zip --- Apple /// backup. Financial software and Apple /// Pascal.
Level II Video Board 4_22_83.dc42 --- Lisa formatted. Troubleshooting instructions for the Lisa video board. This is the disk I'm most excited about!
Lisa Manual Diagrams.dc42 --- Lisa formatted. Did not examine closely but text suggests that if there are still diagrams, some of them may be for technical/service manuals.
LisaTerminal, Crossley 5__.dc42 --- Lisa formatted. Appears to have a copy of LisaTerminal at some version or another.
LisaTest.zip --- Did not examine.
Random.dc42 --- Lisa formatted. Some source for the LisaWrite spell checker.
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Fantastic sleuthing, Tom! I did message Pete Burnight and he told me that some of his Apple /// demos appear to be in the archive, which you have validated.
Looking forward to seeing what else the community finds.
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That'll be it from me for now --- it's bedtime here. There's probably more undiscovered stuff: the strings command is about the most basic data exploration tool there is. To sum up:
Backup[123456] 5_19_83.zip --- Apple /// backup. Has backup of work from an Apple employee who worked in technical documentation. Contains some personal correspondence and maybe also schoolwork. A copy of the Lisa Hardware Manual dated April '83 is present.
I've removed "Backup[123456] 5_19_83.zip" pending more information regarding whether it should remain private due to personal data. Please let us know if you can determine anything about that.
There were two more disks in the set that were actually labelled "personal" that are not included in the uploads.
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(Noting for the record: I sent a DM with some details.)
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I was intrigued by Level II Video Board 4_22_83.dc42 and so "burned" a Twiggy on my Lisa 1 (running Office System 1.1) and had a look. On the desktop, the Twiggy is named "Ross L" and contains:
- A LisaWrite file called "L2Video"
- A folder called VideoDraw with contents
- A(nother) LisaWrite file called "L2Video"
- A LisaList file called "VideoBoardListByComponent"
- A LisaList file called "VideoBoardListByFailure"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12HorAmp"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12VideoAmp"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12VertDefl"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12Failures"
- A LisaDraw file called "VideoDiagram"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12Test Components"
- A LisaDraw file called "VideoBoardBlockDiag"
- A LisaDraw file called "V12Power"
- A LisaCalc file called "L2VideoCharts"
I'm printing these documents now and will scan the ones that print successfully. I hope I have enough paper --- 8.5"x11" fanfold is probably hard to find in the UK!
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I'm printing these documents now and will scan the ones that print successfully. I hope I have enough paper --- 8.5"x11" fanfold is probably hard to find in the UK!
Can you convert them into some 400k compatible format? It would be nice to have some more "real" sample documents on the Lisa.
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Maybe! I'm trying to think about how to accomplish this. Office System 2 will run on a Lisa 1 if I recall correctly; maybe I can make an Office System 2 image that I can share between the Lisa 1 and a simulated Lisa 2.
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Although I did do a lot of printing to a real ImageWriter, I worked out how to get my laptop to receive the serial data instead, and from there how to convert the raw ImageWriter commands to PDF. The results are in this directory here (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u-9h3tN5LE4lehCo2MidwocLdgNKoY3f?usp=sharing). L2Video.pdf is the document itself, and all the other documents hold figures and tables that would have been pasted into it for printing. (Such is life before 7/7 I suppose!)
If you'd like access to the raw ImageWriter data and the conversion process that yielded the PDFs, then Level_II_Video_Board_4-22-83.tar.bz2 in the directory linked above is for you.
I think this should be a pretty helpful document for anyone trying to fix their video boards. The components most likely to fail (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-JCQQnJcaF0j51V-Ti098QeKkHLWblve/view?usp=drive_link) diagram is a pretty interesting one; I think I've seen CR7 replaced on a video board before! But the component that seemed to fail the most in the early 1980s (according to the document) was the 24V voltage regulator U1. I wonder what the most failed component is after 40 years...
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The results are in this directory here (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u-9h3tN5LE4lehCo2MidwocLdgNKoY3f?usp=sharing). L2Video.pdf is the document itself, and all the other documents hold figures and tables that would have been pasted into it for printing. (Such is life before 7/7 I suppose!)
This is an awesome find and extraction effort, thank you Justin and Tom!
If someone pastes the diagrams into the appropriate places in the text before I get around to it, please post it!
James