LisaList2
General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: AlexTheCat123 on September 12, 2024, 01:22:10 pm
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This Lisa 1 (https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/apple-lisa-1-microcomputer-143/230081?ldp_breadcrumb=back) on Christie's was sitting at about $30K for a while, but it shot up at the last minute and sold for almost a million dollars! I really don't understand why somebody would pay anywhere near that much, but I guess they just really, really wanted a Lisa 1 and had a whole lot of cash to spare.
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I can't make heads or tails of it. We don't even know if it runs --- maybe the buyer contacted the auction to find out? Anyway, these machines degrade; are people expecting them to retain value as durably as a piece of fine art?
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Truly an anomaly.
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Truly an anomaly.
Definitely! That same auction had an Altair 8800 selling for around $55K, a NeXTcube for $21K, a lot of 9 microcomputers (common stuff like a PET, Apple II, PC XT, and so on) for $47K, and Spacewar punched onto paper tape for $18K! It's almost like a shill bidder was intentionally driving the prices up to absurd levels. I just don't see any other scenario in which this stuff would sell for so much!
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I can't make heads or tails of it. We don't even know if it runs --- maybe the buyer contacted the auction to find out?
Given that there weren't any pictures of the insides, I was a bit suspicious that the Twiggies might not even be in there at all! I know we've seen a machine or two like that come up on eBay before.
The box of Twiggies that seem to contain some Apple-internal software is definitely cool. Let's hope it ends up in the hands of someone who realizes the importance of dumping them!
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I mean, for reference, the most recent RR auction with a functional Lisa 1 and both Twiggy drives (https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/349076606984050-apple-lisa-computer-with-twiggy-drives-profile-hard-drive-software-manuals-and-printer/?cat=0) (one of which works) went for $81K. Another Lisa 1 that was non-functional yet had both original Twiggy drives present (https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageApple/comments/1dys9d6/just_picked_this_bad_boy_up/?rdt=64079) sold privately for $28K recently. There's simply no rational explanation for a sudden 10x increase in value.
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The only thing that makes sense is 1) it was from Paul Allens hoard (although not restored) and 2) the buyer was wealthy enough to set the valuation with their purchase price.
The old saying that 'something is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it' proves itself once again.
This is reminiscent of the pricing we've seen in art and antiquities over the past decade, which has always been driven by rarity and heavy wallet flexes.
One last-minute thought is it is a tribute purchase made by someone well-off enough to 'tip' Paul Allen (estate) for his philanthropy. <and in the process significantly raised the value of his L1> ;)
In either case, it will be interesting to know how many L1 owners will be contacting auction houses over the next few months.
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Now there's one on eBay with a buy-it-now option for $52K (https://www.ebay.com/itm/405236593600).
Images archived here for posterity: https://imgur.com/a/apple-lisa-1-on-ebay-KgWzFlQ
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And... the listing has been ended by the seller because the item is no longer available. I wonder if they sold it to a private buyer or something?
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I reached out and asked. The seller is considering using an auction house (RR Auction, etc.) rather than eBay.
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Images archived here for posterity: https://imgur.com/a/apple-lisa-1-on-ebay-KgWzFlQ
The pic in the original listing of MS-DOS floppies was subsequently replaced with this pic of the Twiggy drives.
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I reached out and asked. The seller is considering using an auction house (RR Auction, etc.) rather than eBay.
It makes sense - there is a difference in how vintage computer items are perceived and valued between eBay and auction houses - eBay being the hamfest/bazaar approach for parts and tech doohickies while auction houses being the more curated sale of items -the latter comes at a heavy buyers premium and a limited buyer group.
As for the original Christies auction - it would be interesting to see the bid increments and how many interested parties there were.
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As for the original Christies auction - it would be interesting to see the bid increments and how many interested parties there were.
I was registered for the auction and even had placed a "low" bid few days before the auction end.
Few data points:
- the 79th bid was at $130k, about 1 hour before the auction end.
- the 96th bid was at $420k, few minutes before the end.
- the 103rd winning bid was at $700k.
There is a 26% commission to Christies, which brings the winning bid do $882k + sales tax + shipping. This is insane.
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Interesting to know...
Is Christie's like eBay where you only pay some amount over the runner-up's top bid, or is it just an ordinary auction where you pay the price you bid?
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As for the original Christies auction - it would be interesting to see the bid increments and how many interested parties there were.
Few data points:
- the 79th bid was at $130k, about 1 hour before the auction end.
- the 96th bid was at $420k, few minutes before the end.
- the 103rd winning bid was at $700k.
Thanks for the data points - interesting that there were that many bids above 130K.
Did the bid increments give an idea of how many different bidders may have been duking it out towards the end?
Anyway, thanks for the info - though I still don't understand the value/appeal considering the limited amount of images provided.
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Interesting to know...
Is Christie's like eBay where you only pay some amount over the runner-up's top bid, or is it just an ordinary auction where you pay the price you bid?
The buyer pays the price bid PLUS an additional premium above the bid - in the US it is a heavy 27% for this sale.
"27% of the hammer price of amounts in excess of $50,000 up to and including $1,000,000;"
https://www.bonhams.com/how-to-buy/buyers-premium-united-states/
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Interesting to know...
Is Christie's like eBay where you only pay some amount over the runner-up's top bid, or is it just an ordinary auction where you pay the price you bid?
Yes, it is like eBay, at least for online auctions:
"A max bid sets the highest bid you are willing to place on a lot and continues to bid on your behalf until that bid is exceeded. If two or more bidders leave identical bids, the first bid received takes precedence. You can change your maximum bid amount if the current bid is lower than your maximum bid."
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I reached out and asked. The seller is considering using an auction house (RR Auction, etc.) rather than eBay.
This one did indeed go to RR Auction. Here's the live listing:
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/349773707146055-apple-lisa-computer-with-twiggy-drives-profile-hard-drive-mouse-and-keyboard/?cat=0
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So basically, they are selling an LISA 1 chassis with a (authentic?) front bezel and no twiggy drives.
Keyboard, square mouse, and a 5mb Profile
My option is the estimate seems high but then again given the final price of the OP, anything could happen.
Worth a watch if you are keen to see how LISAs are being valued
NOTE: As pointed out, I was mistaken. I had overlooked the least amount of text an auction house could give to one of the most critical parts of a LISA 1.
That said, given the drives' unknown status and the obvious lack of images, once again, I can't imagine it being a positive sign.
I apologize if I appear overly critical to this type of presentation.
The concern lies in the aftertaste of auctions lacking details.
Regardless, I hope any bidders on this board will share further information gleaned in the 'condition report' post-gavel.
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So basically, they are selling an LISA 1 chassis with a (authentic?) front bezel and no twiggy drives...
It (the one at RR Auction) has its Twiggy drives. That's an original Lisa 1. Not currently in working condition, but certainly a good foundation to repair and have fully functional again.
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I reached out and asked. The seller is considering using an auction house (RR Auction, etc.) rather than eBay.
This one did indeed go to RR Auction. Here's the live listing:
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/349773707146055-apple-lisa-computer-with-twiggy-drives-profile-hard-drive-mouse-and-keyboard/?cat=0
Went for $45,454 plus the buyer's premium, so approximately $56,817 out the door. RR Auction will probably take 15-20% of that sum from the seller in fees, netting the seller $42 to $44K. With the original eBay ask of $52K, minus $2K in eBay fees, the net proceeds from eBay would have been about $50K.
Unless RR Auction cut the seller a deal on fees, he or she would have done much better with an eBay sale.
In any case, if that machine was fully working it probably would have sold for closer to double the price. I am surprised they didn't make a more earnest repair attempt in preparation for the sale.
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I agree - there has to be a reason for RR not even trying to upsell the internals with proper images.
As I said, my frustration stems from the notion that as their value appreciates, there will be more slap-together LISA auctions.
If auction houses don't do a better job of qualifying their offerings, some genuine junk will be offered.
[END OF GRIPE]
;D
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RR's next Lisa 1 auction has gone live, and will end next month: https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/350473807246026-apple-lisa-computer-with-twiggy-drives-profile-hard-drive-mouse-keyboard-and-software/?cat=0
Drives reportedly work. Seems to come with a full complement of Twiggy disks and manuals, including LisaTerminal. Should fetch a good price.