LisaList2

General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: ried on November 24, 2024, 01:48:23 pm

Title: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: ried on November 24, 2024, 01:48:23 pm
I've been experimenting with various combinations of hardware and software to enable BLU (http://sigmasevensystems.com/BLU)'s built-in serial communication / file transfer capability between Lisa and modern Mac hardware, like a MacBook Pro. So far, I have been successful with the Lisa 2/10 across the following configurations:

System #1:
   Late 2013 13” MacBook Pro (Intel, macOS Big Sur 11.7.10)
Software:
   CoolTerm (http://freeware.the-meiers.org/).
Lisa is connected to:
   C2G 6’ DB25 Male to DB9 Female Serial RS232 Null Modem Cable (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000083K2R).
   Gearmo USB to Serial RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators, FTDI chip (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AHYJWWG)
   or
   Sabrent CB-DB9P USB 2.0 To Serial DB9 Male (9 Pin) RS232 Cable Adapter, Prolific chip (https://sabrent.com/products/cb-db9p)
Note: Flow Control = DTR on, CTS off.

System #2:
   Late 2020 13” MacBook Pro (Apple Silicon, macOS Sequoia 15.1.1)
Software:
   CoolTerm (http://freeware.the-meiers.org/).
Lisa connected via:
   C2G 6’ DB25 Male to DB9 Female Serial RS232 Null Modem Cable (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000083K2R/)
   Sabrent CB-DB9P USB 2.0 To Serial DB9 Male (9 Pin) RS232 Cable Adapter, Prolific chip (https://sabrent.com/products/cb-db9p)
   USB-A to USB-C adapter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GGKYXVE)
Note: Flow Control = DTR on, CTS off.

I have also been experimenting with another macOS app called Serial (https://www.decisivetactics.com/products/serial/) and text communication seems to be working, but file transfers do not. I have asked the developer for more information.

I have not yet found a working combination for Lisa 1/5 machines, but I am working on that also. Seems to be related to pin 4 (RTS) where the Lisa 2/10 features a 10k pull-up resistor and the Lisa 1/5 does not, or null modem wiring (TBC).

Hopefully this info helps someone with a Lisa 2/10 (or Mac XL) that wants to use BLU's built-in serial communication capability (http://sigmasevensystems.com/blumanual.html). Special thanks to sigma7 for creating that software, and for continuously providing his insight while I continue looking for solutions.

For reference, here's a screenshot of CoolTerm's working serial port configuration:

(https://i.imgur.com/IL2RZJo.png)
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: ried on November 26, 2024, 01:45:16 am
Does anyone have a working configuration that enables a Lisa 1/5 running BLU to communicate with a modern Mac via serial to USB adapter? I am having a devil of a time trying to figure one out. The Lisa 2/10 was comparatively easy.

It's so frustrating that I might end up using Windows  :P
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: Lisa2 on November 27, 2024, 09:35:04 pm
OK, I just tried using BLU V0.9 on a Lisa2/5 ( port B ) connected to my M1 Mac Mini running MacOS Monterey and CoolTerm 2.3.0.  I have a FTDI based USB to serial adapter.  It all worked straight out the box, I started CoolTerm, picked my port and set it 56K baud.  Are you trying to say this may be  a specific issue with a Twiggy Lisa?
Rick
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: ried on November 27, 2024, 10:15:34 pm
That's amazing. Can you please share your specific make & model of FTDI-based USB to serial adapter? Which null modem cable (or other DB25 to DE-9 adapters) are you using? The more detail you have on the exact hardware you're using, the better. Thank you!
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: AlexTheCat123 on November 28, 2024, 09:11:06 am
I'm also able to connect with my 2/5s without any issue. I use Serial instead of CoolTerm, and everything works fine (including file transfers), so I'm not sure what's causing your issues there. I'm out of town right now, but I can get you more info on my USB to serial adapter once I get back!
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: Lisa2 on November 28, 2024, 10:47:30 am
Can you please share your specific make & model of FTDI-based USB to serial adapter? Which null modem cable (or other DB25 to DE-9 adapters) are you using?

The USB adapter I used is a USO9ML2-LS made by B&B Electronics (now Advantech):

https://www.advantech.com/en-us/products/b851dad7-5f2f-46da-926d-6fe3157b34aa/bb-uso9ml2-ls-a/mod_3aa59323-fad3-4a62-bc81-47d4c4ce2511 (https://www.advantech.com/en-us/products/b851dad7-5f2f-46da-926d-6fe3157b34aa/bb-uso9ml2-ls-a/mod_3aa59323-fad3-4a62-bc81-47d4c4ce2511)

Note that this adapter has some extra features not required to communicate with Lisa such as isolation and a locked serial number.  It does use FTDI chipset, something I prefer over the prolific adapters.

My cable is exactly as recommended in the BLU manual, Appendix B:

Lisa       Signals     PC
DB25M                DE9F
  2     Tx > Rx        2
  3     Rx < Tx        3
  7         Gnd          5
  6    DSR < RTS     7
 20    DTR > CTS    8
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: ried on November 28, 2024, 12:33:09 pm
I'm also able to connect with my 2/5s without any issue. I use Serial instead of CoolTerm, and everything works fine (including file transfers), so I'm not sure what's causing your issues there. I'm out of town right now, but I can get you more info on my USB to serial adapter once I get back!

Two issues with Serial here:

Can you please share your specific make & model of FTDI-based USB to serial adapter? Which null modem cable (or other DB25 to DE-9 adapters) are you using?

The USB adapter I used is a USO9ML2-LS made by B&B Electronics (now Advantech):

https://www.advantech.com/en-us/products/b851dad7-5f2f-46da-926d-6fe3157b34aa/bb-uso9ml2-ls-a/mod_3aa59323-fad3-4a62-bc81-47d4c4ce2511 (https://www.advantech.com/en-us/products/b851dad7-5f2f-46da-926d-6fe3157b34aa/bb-uso9ml2-ls-a/mod_3aa59323-fad3-4a62-bc81-47d4c4ce2511)

That is very helpful. I suspect we have found the difference between a $10-30 adapter and a $150 adapter :D  I shall change out the adapter and report back. Thank you both very much.
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: Lisa2 on November 28, 2024, 04:47:35 pm
I’m glad this topic came up.  I’ve been a coolterm user for sometime, but I did not know they added xmodem support recently. 
To tell the truth, the last BLU project I worked on, I had to use Windows (teraterm) because I didn’t know coolterm  had xmodem support.
Rick
Title: Re: BLU (Basic Lisa Utility) compatibility with macOS and USB to Serial adapters
Post by: ried on December 07, 2024, 06:04:17 pm
Further investigation indicates that the Serial B traces are damaged on the 2/5 motherboards - likely due to battery corrosion from long ago. I have tried multiple (known good) I/O boards, but the result is the same. Now we know.