LisaList2

The Lisa profile that comes with RGBtoHDMI was made by the creator using lisa specs not with an actual lisa.

It doesn't work with my Lisa as well as many people's including when Adrian tried it on his show.

He got a new better profile and said it would be included and updates to the video adapter, but I haven't seen any updates posted.

The correct settings are available in this thread: https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,454.0.html

Sadly, I tried those quite a while back and they did not work either.

Interesting. Those settings should be universal for all Lisas that don't have the screen mod installed. Can you describe the hardware you're using and how it's failing?

Quote from: ried on January 19, 2026, 10:48:37 PMInteresting. Those settings should be universal for all Lisas that don't have the screen mod installed. Can you describe the hardware you're using and how it's failing?

Lisa 2/10 no screen modifications H rom.

The only way I was ever able to get it to work was to use a connection directly to the chip. A few weeks later, the chip went bad on me so I abandoned using that method. I couldn't get a nice clean way to get the video out of the back anyway.

I've seen several others state that they couldn't get their 2/10 to work with the RGB to HDMI either.

My hope is that the profile used on Adrians digital basement might work for me.

Posts 12-17/18
https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,454.0.html

Quote from: bmwcyclist on January 20, 2026, 07:44:57 AMMy hope is that the profile used on Adrians digital basement might work for me.

If you want, I can text Adrian and see if he can send me the profile!

We might want to coordinate around this to work things out systematically.

The profile I posted at the start of the thread that ried linked works on my Lisa 1 but not my 2/10. I haven't investigated why, but I doubt that there is much difference between the way either computer makes video; it could be that the RGB2HDMI is quite sensitive to certain kinds of noise when processing signals specifically like the kind the Lisa makes (whatever that means).

We can discard the old Lisa profile that was made without access to a Lisa, but perhaps sharing multiple profiles in the same spot and seeing how they are similar or different would be enlightening.

Note that if the RGB2HDMI really is "noise fragile" for Lisa video signals, then variations in the RGB2HDMI itself could be a factor; in other words, a profile that works on my device may not work on yours.

Quote... works on my Lisa 1 but not my 2/10. I haven't investigated why, but I doubt that there is much difference between the way either computer makes video

AFAIK, the composite video driver circuit is a bit different on the two motherboards.

The 2/10 design uses a conformal coated circuit (essentially SMT on a ceramic substrate), while the Lisa 1 design uses discrete components.

The 2/10 design has a bias to -5V that the earlier design does not, as well as numerous component value changes.

Something like the drawing below, although someone (else) should check for accuracy.

Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on January 20, 2026, 11:56:10 AM

Quote from: bmwcyclist on January 20, 2026, 07:44:57 AMMy hope is that the profile used on Adrians digital basement might work for me.

If you want, I can text Adrian and see if he can send me the profile!

wow! yes!

How do we add Karma and thank people now, I don't see a button...

Quote from: bmwcyclist on January 20, 2026, 04:51:08 PMHow do we add Karma and thank people now, I don't see a button...

The 'karma' functionality of the forum disappeared in the update from 2.0.x to 2.1.x. We were able to restore karma values (as they were prior to the update) but modifying +/- karma is simply no longer a thing.

> AFAIK, the composite video driver circuit is a bit different on the two motherboards.

You would hope that by now I would have learned not to make hasty assumptions!

It grows late here in London Town, but both of these simple circuits might be fun to emulate in everyone's favourite in-browser circuit simulator (https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html). It might illustrate the difference between the signals. VID is the pixels and should be TTL, and I think CVOUT should be TTL too... gathering evidence from here (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/hardware/Lisa_CPU/050-4009-H-1of5.pdf) and here (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/hardware/Lisa_1_Motherboard/lisa-motherboard-enhanced.pdf) it looks like it is known on the CPU board as \CSYNC and is made here (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/hardware/Lisa_CPU/050-4009-H-5of5.pdf).

So I think that's about all we need to know with the possible exception of the parameters that the circuit simulator would need to more accurately reproduce the transistors' behaviour. To approximate VID and CVOUT in the circuit simulator, I would make CVOUT a 380 Hz 0V/+5V square wave with a 90% duty cycle and VID the product of ANDing CVOUT with a 280 KHz square wave.

When using the composite output of the Lisa to drive the RGBtoHDMI the only change needed is to turn the 75R Termination On for the Lisa2/5 and Off for the Lisa2/10.  For me all the rest of the settings stay the same.
Rick

Thanks!

FYI, I can't test again right now but as documented in a previous thread that did not work for my 2/10

I've decided to give this another look. I can confirm that I need to turn 75R termination ON for the Lisa 1 and OFF for the 2/10.

Additionally, I've found that for my profile, the Lisa 1 requires a sampling phase setting between 0 (0 degrees) and 4 (180 degrees), while the 2/10 requires a sampling phase between 3 (135 degrees) and 7 (315 degrees). I've selected 4 then, an arbitrary choice from the two that overlap.

My profile, which I keep on the SD card at Saved_Profiles/6-12_BIT_YUV_Analog/Apple_/Apple_Lisa_.txt, is as follows:

sampling=4,4,4,4,4,4,4,0,1,0,5,0,0,0,1,4,0,1,1,0,64,256,256,256,39,256,256,256
geometry=156,9,720,360,720,368,2,3,1,1,20374338,896,5000,384,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
scanline_level=0
Meanwhile, in the thread ried linked (https://lisalist2.com/index.php/topic,454.0.html), we have

This setting for 8-bit analog YUV by user RolandJuno:
sampling=7,7,7,7,7,7,7,0,1,0,10,0,0,0,0,4,1,1,1,0,79,256,256,256,256,39,256,256
geometry=164,7,552,364,720,364,2,3,1,1,20374338,896,5000,379,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
scanline_level=0
sigma7 recommends substituting 3,4 for 2,3 in the geometry= line, preferring a pixel ratio of 4/3 to 3/2 (height/width).

As it is here in this adaptation of the RolandJuno setting by ried:
sampling=7,7,7,7,7,7,7,0,1,0,10,0,0,0,0,4,1,1,1,0,79,256,256,256,256,39,256,256
geometry=164,7,552,364,720,364,3,4,1,1,20374338,896,5000,379,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
scanline_level=0
Beyond the thread:

This variant is by DosFox (https://tech.lgbt/@DosFox), who made the first operational Lisa clone:
sampling=7,7,7,7,7,7,7,0,1,0,10,0,0,0,1,4,1,1,1,0,49,256,256,256,256,31,256,256
geometry=160,10,712,362,720,368,2,3,1,1,20368338,896,5000,377,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
teletext_scaling=0
scanline_level=0
I wonder what the Adrian's Digital Basement variety is like?

Quotesigma7 recommends substituting 3,4 for 2,3 in the geometry= line, preferring a pixel ratio of 4/3 to 3/2 (height/width).

I've not yet tried that myself, and now doubt that it would make an improvement in accurately representing the CRT image. The suggestion was based on calculations using a raster adjusted to fit most of the viewable area through the front panel in conjunction with the observation that the usual recommendation for a 3:2 aspect ratio of pixels does not look right.

Since then, anotherLISAguy measured an actual alignment graticule (https://lisalist2.com/index.php?msg=3845) (a very rare service part) and we found that the "official" CRT adjustments put the aspect ratio of the pixels between 3:2 and 4:3, but closer to 3:2.

Quote from: stepleton on January 24, 2026, 11:56:24 AMI've decided to give this another look. I can confirm that I need to turn 75R termination ON for the Lisa 1 and OFF for the 2/10.

Thank you for confirming this!   

Due to the composite video's analog signal path and 40+ year old Lisa hardware combined with variations in RGBtoHDMI builds, this solution is never going to be plug-and-play.  Some tweaking of the settings is bound to be required for each user. 

Rick

Here are two RGBtoHDMI profiles that I've got working on a Lisa 1/5 for H (rectangular pixel) and 3A (square pixel) ROMs.

These are using the YUV CPLD configuration, so are stored in eg.

Profiles/6-12_BIT_YUV_Analog/Apple_/Apple_Lisa_R2_.txt
Profiles/6-12_BIT_YUV_Analog/Apple_/Apple_Lisa_S2_.txt

The underscore preceding .txt is needed for the profiles to appear as an available choice when "mono_board_detected()".

It may be that the RGB CPLD configuration would be more tolerant of variations between machines... dunno. The CPLD configuration can be changed from "Settings Menu"-"Update CPLD Menu", wherein I see BBC, RGB, and YUV options.

Some parameters in the sampling= line apply to only one of RGB/YUV, and other settings apply to both, but not all in an identical way. I'll try to document what I've mis/understood in case someone feels like taking it farther. (See spreadsheet attached or link to google sheets below.)

After barely starting to understand what the parameters are for, I'm truly amazed at the accomplishment this device represents.

I focused on trying to understand the geometry and sampling lines, so I don't know if the lines after "palette=" are relevant, unnecessary artifacts from my fiddling with options, or somehow specific to my setup.

Most experimentation was using the stock 20.37504 MHz dot clock. Since some CPU boards use the more readily available 20 MHz, I tried a variable frequency generator to see if another profile would be needed for those. I found that the device would sync to a wide range of frequencies from 19.5 to 21 MHz within a couple of seconds, so it seems the frequency specified in the geometry line doesn't need to be precise. The clock tolerance can be set as high as 100000 but it seems 5000 is sufficient. More below under "Auto-Switching".

Comparing to other published profiles, I see there is a variation in DAC-E Sync and DAC-F Y/V Sync voltages. I found this setting to have a narrow range of working values (narrower than the range of published profile values). Hence if you try any of these "known working" profiles and find it doesn't work properly, I suggest you try adjusting DAC-E or DAC-F (whichever one is not "256" = disabled) in the Sampling menu. The working range I observed is smaller than expected board to board variations due to using 5% resistors, so as Rick says, it seems probable that the profile will need to be tweaked per machine. More investigation may reveal a configuration that makes this setting less sensitive.

Rectangular Pixels (eg. H ROMs) with 3:2 pixel aspect ratio output:
sampling=2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,0,1,1,0,77,256,256,256,44,256,256,256
geometry=88,8,720,364,720,364,2,3,0,0,20375213,896,5000,379,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
palette_control=3
ntsc_type=2
pal_oddline=2
normal_deinterlace=1
ffosd_overlay=1
scanline_level=0
Square Pixels (3A ROMs) with 1:1 pixel aspect ratio output:
sampling=2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,0,1,1,0,77,256,256,256,44,256,256,256
geometry=88,8,608,432,648,438,1,1,0,0,20375213,768,5000,450,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
palette_control=3
ntsc_type=2
pal_oddline=2
normal_deinterlace=1
ffosd_overlay=1
scanline_level=0
Lisa 2/10

I tried these profiles on a Lisa 2/10 and initially had a black screen. I tried turning off the 75R terminator as suggested by Stepleton, and that did reveal the video, confirming the settings are at least close. I turned the terminator back on (to preserve signal quality in theory), and reduced the DAC-A and DAC-E values to 48 and 7 respectively (I selected the middle of the workable range of each).

eg. for my 2/10
sampling=2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,0,1,1,0,48,256,256,256,7,256,256,256
AC Coupling might help with creating a universal profile?

We've observed that a major difference between the composite video of the Lisa 1/2/5 and the Lisa 2/10 is a voltage offset. As a result, profiles developed so far may work for one model but do not work on the other. Since the shapes of the composite video signals are very similar other than the voltage offset, it may be that using the AC coupling option could solve the problem of making profiles that work for multiple machines.

Here are preliminary examples of profiles that use the AC coupling option, and in my limited testing (with one Lisa 2/10 and one Lisa 1/5), they work with both models.

These profiles are also the ones in the LisaAutoSwitch_.zip file attached.

As above, I still don't know if the lines after "palette=" are relevant, unnecessary artifacts from my fiddling with options, or somehow specific to my setup.

Lisa_AC_Coupled_Rect_.txt
sampling=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,1,1,1,1,87,256,256,256,256,47,61,256
geometry=88,8,720,364,720,364,2,3,0,0,20359472,896,900,379,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
palette_control=3
ntsc_type=2
pal_oddline=2
normal_deinterlace=1
ffosd_overlay=1
scanline_level=0
genlock_speed=1
genlock_adjust=4
Lisa_AC_Coupled_Square_.txt
sampling=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,1,1,1,1,87,256,256,256,256,47,61,256
geometry=88,8,608,432,648,438,1,1,0,0,20375213,768,900,450,4,0,0
palette=Mono_(2_level)
palette_control=3
ntsc_type=2
pal_oddline=2
normal_deinterlace=1
ffosd_overlay=1
scanline_level=0
genlock_speed=1
genlock_adjust=4
Auto-Switching

RGBtoHDMI has a profile auto-switch feature, so that if your computer has multiple video modes, you don't have the manually select a new profile each time the computer changes modes.

As far as I can tell, this can be implemented in two ways:

• Auto-Switch between two sub-profile settings in one file
• Auto-Switch between different profile files in one folder

AutoSwitch Method 1

For giggles, I tried setting up auto-switching for the Lisa to distinguish between rectangular and square pixels, and preliminary testing suggest it works. The auto-switch test appears to use the "clock tolerance" parameter of the geometry settings to determine if another profile should be considered. I found the default of 5000 for the clock tolerance was too large for auto-switching to respond correctly to the change in Lisa video.

I noticed that with auto-switching active, there was some inconvenient switching when using the RGBtoHDMI menus, so I recommend having regular single profiles for each video mode available as well if using the auto-switch technique.

eg. For Lisa 1/2
sampling2=2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,0,1,1,0,77,256,256,256,44,256,256,256
geometry2=88,8,608,432,648,438,1,1,0,0,20375213,768,900,450,4,0,0
sampling=2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,4,0,1,1,0,77,256,256,256,44,256,256,256
geometry=88,8,720,364,720,364,2,3,0,0,20375213,896,900,379,4,0,0
auto_switch=4
palette=Mono_(2_level)
palette_control=3
ntsc_type=2
pal_oddline=2
normal_deinterlace=1
ffosd_overlay=1
scanline_level=0

AutoSwitch Method 2

By adding a file named "Default.txt" containing one line to a subfolder of otherwise normal (non auto-switch) Profiles, the autoswitch feature can switch between 2 or more sets of parameters.

eg. Default.txt contains
auto_switch=1

The attached zip is an autoswitch folder set up with two profiles (for Rectangular and Square pixels). These profiles are set to AC coupled, so may be a good starting point for both Lisa 1/2/5 and Lisa 2/10s. To use, unzip, and copy the resulting "LisaAutoSwitch_" folder to the /Profiles/6-12_BIT_YUV_Analog/Apple_/ folder of the Pi's card. Start up the RGBtoHDMI and use "select profile" to pick one of the profiles in the copied folder. You may need to tweak the sampling settings DAC-A, DAC-F for your particular Lisa.

Hardware Used

Thanks to Sapient Technologies for providing the RGBtoHDMI device used for this experimentation.

I'm not sure where Todd got it originally, but it looks like this one with an injection molded case, 3.5mm jack and RCA cable:
https://cjemicros.co.uk/micros/individual/newprodpages/prodinfo.php?prodcode=DB-IB-1V (https://cjemicros.co.uk/micros/individual/newprodpages/prodinfo.php?prodcode=DB-IB-1V)
The CPLD board inside is labelled "RGBtoHD Mono+ LumaCode Iss.4 c 2018-24 Hoglet & IanB"

Documentation

Google sheets/attachment with info: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MQWPjfv43FGFSYOz6U3-sRAH9wJHWWzMEabpCMYLOIw/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MQWPjfv43FGFSYOz6U3-sRAH9wJHWWzMEabpCMYLOIw/edit?usp=sharing)

I'll edit this post to add/correct details as they are discovered.

Edit: I was fiddling with older test profiles on my RGBtoHDMI units. Please disregard this post.  :-[

See below.

Getting close!

Sigh. One of these days I'm going to stop making such fundamental errors... sigma7's LisaAutoSwitch profile is working perfectly. I had been fiddling with the older profiles and, after correctly selecting LisaAutoSwitch, did not need to adjust much of anything after all.

I have two different RGBtoHDMI hardware units (slightly different configurations) and the profile works across both of them with minimal tweaks, i.e. adjusting Sampling > Pixel H Offset from 0 to 4 between units. No further changes needed. I think the Lisa 2/10 3A configuration is now solved.

Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!Thank you!