Hello!
I just purchased a very used but well outfitted MacXL
It has the screen mod (I would like this removed)
XLerator 16mhz
800 floppy
Sun Remarketing ROMS
Sun Remarketing SCSI HD card and HD
Widget
Issues:
PSU Dead. Using my spare for now.
Monitor is BLANK, no sign of turning on other than red glow at the business end (see photos)
If I run video off of the RCA port I get a mess but I can see that it will pass post and make it to the prompt asking what to boot from (If I unhook the widget anyway)
If I put the card cage in my 2/10 it will come to the boot device prompt screen but the video will be crunched and adjusting the PSU controls do not fix it. ( I don't want to mess with my 2/10 video pots ) If I try to boot to the ESProfile I get garbage when I should have the selector.
Strangely, putting the CPU card into my 2/10 I get the same issue.
Moving the XLerator to my other CPU card everything looks good and boots to MacWorks. (though a strange amount of RAM under info..)
Can't get the video from the XL cage to sync with RGBTOHDMI
So....
1. What do you think is wrong with the monitor?
2. What is up with not booting to the selector? (or at least it not being readable)
3. Why did the video issue 'follow' the CPU card?
4. How do I undo the screen mod?
New XLerator card running on 2/10 CPU card in 2/10 computer.
Odd RAM size.
The Selector does not work with the screen mod at present (and the video state ROM in your card cage is probably enough of the screen mod to cause trouble). The garbage is likely the ordinary Selector screen failing to display well with the screen mod's screen geometry. Use the arrow keys (or keypad 8 and 2) and odds are that the black selected text will move up and down the screen.
One of the things I might do with my own LisaFPGA is develop an updated Selector that supports regular and modified screen geometries.
Thanks!
Know of any source of H roms?
Any thoughts on the monitor issue?
QuoteXLerator ...
Odd RAM size.
The video shows the XLerator control panel reporting "2MB in Bank 0, 512K in Bank 1". This would be accurate if there are two 1MB SIMMs and two 256K SIMMs.
Later in the video, the MaxiRAM control panel says there is a potential 2016K cache. That would be from 2MB of slot RAM less the 32K used for the video bitmap.
QuoteKnow of any source of H roms?
ROM images are on Bitsavers... https://bitsavers.org/bits/Apple/Lisa/firmware/ (https://bitsavers.org/bits/Apple/Lisa/firmware/)
If you don't already have one, you can buy an inexpensive programmer or phone a friend.
Quote3. Why did the video issue 'follow' the CPU card?
4. How do I undo the screen mod?
The digital portion of the video circuitry is on the CPU card. It is controlled largely by the 20 pin "Video PROM" in the socket at 6C. When you move the CPU card, the video characteristics go with it.
To undo the screen mod, you need to:
- replace the Video PROM U6C
- replace the two CPU EPROMs U13D, U14D,
- remove (disconnect, you don't need to remove it if it is attached to the chassis) the autotransformer connected between the video board and the CRT yoke
- probably adjust the trimpots on the video board so the image fits the CRT in a reasonable way
Thank you!
That just leaves figuring out why the screen isn't displaying a picture.
Quote from: sigma7 link=msg=5877If you don't already have one, you can buy an inexpensive programmer or phone a friend.
Things don't seem well labeled there. Does that also include the video ROMs?
Do you know what EEPROM chips are used?
[/quote]
The video shows the XLerator control panel reporting "2MB in Bank 0, 512K in Bank 1". This would be accurate if there are two 1MB SIMMs and two 256K
[/quote]
I'm an idiot. Thank you. for some reason when I saw the KB I lost my mind. I've been dealing in modern memory sizes too much.
The video PROM is the hard one — that bipolar PROM can't be burned on my GQ-4X4.
Any pre-burned spares?
Update!
I removed the screen kit transformer. Well, technically just unplugged it.
And now I'm getting video!
The brightness seems to be fluctuating a little bit and the HOR PHASE pot is really twitchy. I know my power supply is good because it works fine in my 2/10.
I booted off my floppy EMU into MAC Works and the SCSI hard drive seems to be doing great!
I'm wondering if I need to recap the video board?
The keyboard is not being recognized, so I'm off to troubleshoot that next.
QuoteThings don't seem well labeled there. Does that also include the video ROMs?
Do you know what EEPROM chips are used?
Pages such as https://wiki.reactivemicro.com/Apple_Chip_Designations (https://wiki.reactivemicro.com/Apple_Chip_Designations) can be helpful.
The Video PROMs are almost all the files that are 256 bytes. The CPU Board ROMs are the 341-0175/6 files.
The rectangular pixel version of the video PROM contains the serial number, so was originally unique (aside from a few, presumably unintentional, duplicates), hence multiple files which will be the same except for the serial number. The screen mod PROM version is the same for all Lisas with square pixels as it does not contain a serial number.
However, the P6A Woz Machine PROM on the earlier Lisa 1/2 I/O Board is also 256 bytes. The I/O one is the 342-0172A part (Although the contents are the same as the Apple ][ Disk Controller which has a different pn). The 2/10 I/O Board does not use this part.
The Video PROMs are 256x8 bipolar PROMs, which are now rare and thus expensive (they are one-time programmable so cannot be erased and reused, unlike EPROMs). However ...
I believe the appropriate adapters that facilitate using an EPROM in a PROM socket will work in this case, but I do not have experience with any of them. It is possible that some designs will interfere with installing an XLerator as well.
The CPU Board EPROMs are a pair the size of 2764s with a speed of approximately 400ns or less. They can be any of the 28 pin DIP variants, eg. 27C64, 2764A, etc.
QuoteThe brightness seems to be fluctuating a little bit and the HOR PHASE pot is really twitchy. I know my power supply is good because it works fine in my 2/10.
I'm wondering if I need to recap the video board?
Those are symptoms of dirty trimpots on the video board. You can try cleaning them with "contact cleaner", or replace them. As a temporary solution, wiggling them a bit might fix it for a while.
Fantastic information thank you that will set me on my way!
I want to back up the sun Microsystems SCSI hard drive and controller before I put them up for sale but bizarrely I can't seem to get both the SCSI and the ESProfile to mount on the desktop at the same time.
If I boot from a floppy Mac Works, I get the sun remarketing on the desktop and as the boot volume. If I boot from the ESprofile I just get it the ESProfile volume mounted.
I tried loading the extensions for my Asante SCSI Appletalk thinking I just copy it over the local network but it locks up on boot right as the extension loads.
Other than trying to upgrade the SCSI drive to system 6.0.8, which I know works with The Asante Appletalk I can't think of any other options, unless someone knows a way to make the profile and the Sun Microsystems SCSI happy together.
While typing this up, it occurred to me that I haven't tried booting off of the ESprofile without using the selector maybe I should try that?
The Sun Microsystems SCSI drive is a lot cooler than I thought it would be. It's nice having the Lisa boot up quickly from a quiet hard drive.
My plan is to recover some of the money from the LISA purchase by selling the sun SCSI/card, but I've really got no idea what they're worth.
I know one of the cards without the hard drive has been for sale on eBay for a very long time so I guess I could consider that too high of a price.
If I get really really unexpectedly lucky, maybe the widget drive will work and I could sell that. Again, I have no idea what that would be worth. I'm currently getting that 8X something error that indicates from the troubleshooting guide it might be just the lock not disengaging.
I suspect the 800 K floppy is only worth peanuts and best just kept with the machine. That might also be nice because being currently over budget, I don't have the money for another floppy EMU.
If I can make enough money off of the accessories that came with the LISA and some of the old Apple ][ and Macintosh computers I'm putting up on eBay, I hope to be able to keep the second Lisa for a while so when I go to the local computer shows to do demos, I'm not risking my original pride and joy LISA.
I suspect, eventually, will have to sell it.
It also came with something I've never seen before a glare screen that goes between the CRT and the front cover. It's in pretty good shape with only one tiny little spot in the front. Are those collectible?
Here are the EEproms I've ordered from Amazon. I hope those will do.
To use System 6.0.8, you must also be using MW+II.
Sun's MW+ only supports up to System 6.0.3
Quote from: Lisa2 on June 27, 2026, 08:34:40 PMTo use System 6.0.8, you must also be using MW+II.
Sun's MW+ only supports up to System 6.0.3
GTK
I need a Frequency Generator also right?
Update. ROMs ver H copied from my other LISA, installed and a VROM from Vintage Micros. Now just waiting on my PFG kit to arrive.
Still using my backup PSU.
The one that came with it is not producing 5v on pin20, testing under load with the home made load tester from FB.
Fuse is good and I replaced the ugly caps. Still no love. I wish I had the experience to produce a troubleshooting guide for the PSUs.
Mac works under 6.0.2 looks crisp and no burn in on the CRT. Different tint from the other LISA though, I didn't expect that...
Previous owner drilled a big hole in the back panel, I guess to cool the XLerator , I acquired a new back panel, not sure if I should just throw the other one out? I pulled the slot covers off and noticed they have different part numbers inked on them. So many odd things different between the two 2/10s!
I assume no one wants the MacXL ROMs?
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 01, 2026, 10:52:03 PMThe one that came with it is not producing 5v on pin20, testing under load with the home made load tester from FB.
Fuse is good and I replaced the ugly caps. Still no love. I wish I had the experience to produce a troubleshooting guide for the PSUs.
Pin 20 is the +5V standby power, which is basically a separate, smaller, very simple linear PSU inside of the Lisa PSU. You can basically ignore the entire schematic and focus on just this bit:
psu.png
(I'm assuming you have the 1.8A DataPower PSU; the 1.2A Apple PSU has essentially the same circuit at the top of this schematic (https://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/lisa/hardware/Power_Supply/050-4011-H_Power_Supply.pdf).)
There are basically only ten components, and you can do common-sense checking on most of them with a multimeter. Check whether the capacitors are shorted; check whether the diodes have sensible voltage drops in their forward direction and whether they block current in the reverse direction; check that the transformer has continuity through each of its coils (note that you will want to temporarily remove the E6/E7/E8/E9 jumpers before you do this).
If everything looks reasonable, then the voltage regulator Z1 starts to seem like the most likely culprit, and is what I suspect may have gone wrong. This part is easily replaced. Good luck!
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 01, 2026, 10:52:03 PMMac works under 6.0.2 looks crisp and no burn in on the CRT. Different tint from the other LISA though, I didn't expect that...
Greenish or whiteish? My two Lisas have different phosphors as well. The Lisa 1 is whiteish, the 2/10 is greenish.
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 01, 2026, 10:52:03 PMPrevious owner drilled a big hole in the back panel, I guess to cool the XLerator , I acquired a new back panel, not sure if I should just throw the other one out?
If you're just inclined to toss it: I'm missing some slot covers and would love to buy some spares from you.
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 01, 2026, 10:52:03 PMI assume no one wants the MacXL ROMs?
Check to see if they are backed up anywhere first (they probably are); if you have a ROM programmer you can read the contents that way, otherwise BLU may be able to dump them for you. Then, assuming they are EPROMs, store them in an ESD-safe way so that you can use them for something else later?
QuoteIf you're just inclined to toss it: I'm missing some slot covers and would love to buy some spares from you.
Oh my gosh, with all the invaluable help that you've given me over the past couple years I could never dream of charging you for them. The cover only came with two slots, but I'm happy to send them to you. Just message me your address!
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 01, 2026, 10:52:03 PMMac works under 6.0.2 looks crisp and no burn in on the CRT. Different tint from the other LISA though, I didn't expect that...
QuoteGreenish or whiteish? My two Lisas have different phosphors as well. The Lisa 1 is whiteish, the 2/10 is greenish
Yep, one of each see photo!
Also, this is perfect troubleshooting information for the PSU. Thanks again.
Quote from: bmwcyclist on July 02, 2026, 07:04:33 AMOh my gosh, with all the invaluable help that you've given me over the past couple years I could never dream of charging you for them. The cover only came with two slots, but I'm happy to send them to you. Just message me your address!
That's very kind but shipping to England may make you think again :-)
Either way I will send you a message offline.
Reflecting a bit further on my PSU advice: checking the diodes CR6-CR9 is a little trickier than I let on because they are arranged in big loops, thus you will never be able to test a single diode in complete isolation unless you pull out at least one of its legs. So if we think about it a little bit more...
Before starting, pull out the daughter card: I think this ensures that the Line Sense line doesn't connect to anything; otherwise it is basically connected to ground through a resistor, and that will complicate measurements.
Diodes CR7 and CR8 have their anodes and cathodes tied together (on the anode side it's through the transformer, but that doesn't matter for diode testing). Testing in the reverse direction we should still see that current is blocked. In the forward direction, you should see a voltage drop in the 0.7V-1V range, but you will not be able to tell if both diodes are working or if one of them might be open.
With CR6 and CR9 it is the same story.
If you lift a leg of a diode out of the circuit, then you can test it individually, of course!
If your measurements around the diodes are as they are "supposed" to be, and if the other components look good, I'd still be inclined to suspect the voltage regulator, despite the ambiguity.
I also forgot to say explicitly that all of the measurements I'm recommending are with the PSU unplugged! Note that if the PSU is EVER plugged in, there is +340V of rectified DC energising various components in the PSU, even if the PSU appears "off", even if the interlock switch is open, even if the daughter card is removed. This can cause you a lot of harm. Beware!