LISACom LOS Terminal software v1.0 Video Demo, software available for download

[bmwcyclist]

I and a number of other people I have worked with successfully use LisaCom with Windows over USB-Serial.

For connecting a Lisa to a Windows PC over serial (LISACom, or any
terminal work), the USB-to-serial adapter matters:

Get one with an FTDI chipset (FT232RL). Avoid the Prolific PL2303
adapters: many are counterfeit chips, and the current Windows driver
refuses to work with them.

It must be a true RS-232 adapter with a DB9 connector, not a USB-TTL
board. A real Lisa drives full RS-232 voltages, and a TTL-level
board will not talk to it and could be damaged.

The one I use is the CableCreation USB to RS-232 (FTDI, DB9 male).
DTECH also sells an FT232RL version. Either is about $15.

The full chain on my Lisa 2/10:

  PC USB port
  -> FTDI USB-to-serial adapter (DB9 male)
  -> DB9 female to DB25 male adapter (straight-through)
  -> DB25 serial cable
  -> null modem adapter
  -> Lisa Serial B (DB25 female on the back of the Lisa)

The Lisa and the PC are both wired as terminals, so the transmit and
receive lines have to cross exactly once. That is the null modem's
job. Use only one crossover in the chain: a null-modem cable plus a
null-modem adapter cancel each other out and nothing gets through.

On the PC side I use Tera Term at 9600 baud, 8 data bits, no parity,
1 stop bit. The adapter shows up as "USB Serial Port" on a COM port.

Quick test of the adapter by itself: short pins 2 and 3 on its DB9
with a paperclip and type in Tera Term. If your typing echoes back,
the adapter and driver are working.

[TorZidan]

dmac1267's  problem is not in LisaCOM, but in the LisaEm emulator. It does not support Windows well when it comes to serial port data transfer, and, in fact, it seems that the "Serial" option (setup port B to connect to a serial port on the host PC) in the LisaEm preferences has been disabled (unavailable) due to that.

[dmac1267]

Yup. That is exactly how it appears. In Preferences (within LOS) it shows that Serial A is dedicated to ImageWriter or something like that with no way to change it.

[dmac1267]

I am so disappointed that I can't use LisaCom. It is a huge thing to drag the Lisa into the 21th century kicking and screaming. I am also sad because when BBS's were all the rage, I missed it completely. As TorZidan mentioned, it appears that the serial access is disabled. So for now, if you have a true Lisa and a modem, I would highly recommend exploring LisaCom and everything it has to offer.

Maybe a Windows version of a 'virtual modem' to connect to the 'virtual serial port'?

[bmwcyclist]

I am so disappointed that I can't use LisaCom. It is a huge thing to drag the Lisa into the 21th century kicking and screaming. I am also sad because when BBS's were all the rage, I missed it completely. As TorZidan mentioned, it appears that the serial access is disabled. So for now, if you have a true Lisa and a modem, I would highly recommend exploring LisaCom and everything it has to offer.

Maybe a Windows version of a 'virtual modem' to connect to the 'virtual serial port'?

I hope the LISAEM gets working ports. With the AppleTalk stack coming out and the FujiNet client I am working on there are LOTS of new opportunities for networking the Office System.

Until recently my Apple ][ has been able to do more networking and online mulitplayer than the much more capable LISA. Hopefully that is about to change and the LISA OS will be able to joing the rest of the online fun, perhaps even in time for Marchintosh!

The sellouts of the FPGA seem to indicate a popular interest in running the LOS and a networkable emulator would be key. I would think most people can not afford an FPGA (if you can even get one) much less a LISA.


 

[jamesdenton]

I think what the LisaEm team could use is a new issue created on GitHub:

https://github.com/arcanebyte/lisaem/issues

Any details you could provide would be helpful. I don't have an actual Windows host any more, only a Win10 VM in VMware on a Mac. But maybe I could simulate enough to replicate what you're seeing.

A *hardware* FujiNet would need to be implemented in software and added to LisaEm as an option, just like an ImageWriter or something along those lines. I have done this a handful of times for other things I'm working on, but they're not reflected upstream, yet.

[TorZidan]

This is a good place to insert my rant. The SCC (serial communications controller) emulation in LisaEm is one of the most unreadable pieces of code. The following things create an explosion of use cases:
- there is custom code in there for Linux and Windows (and even Arm vs PowerPc vs x86).
- the Lisa side can be configured in so many ways using "protconfig"; it's hard to test even a small subset of these options.
- the hardware on the other side of the wire can be configured in as-many ways.
- you have a choice between xon/xoff software flow control , hardware flow control, or both.
- Even real Lisas are unreliable during serial port transfer, which could mean bugs in the LOS original codebase.

I've spent a lot of time fixing the relevant LisaEm code so that the LOS source files can be uploaded in LisaEm via Pseudo TTY. It kind-of works, but still hangs sometimes.

If we had a way to run UI tests (that can control the lisa mouse and type keystrokes  and read the LisaEm screen), we could start slowly capturing what works and what does not; these tests would also serve as regression tests.

Anyone wants to help?

[bmwcyclist]

I think what the LisaEm team could use is a new issue created on GitHub:

https://github.com/arcanebyte/lisaem/issues

Any details you could provide would be helpful. I don't have an actual Windows host any more, only a Win10 VM in VMware on a Mac. But maybe I could simulate enough to replicate what you're seeing.

A *hardware* FujiNet would need to be implemented in software and added to LisaEm as an option, just like an ImageWriter or something along those lines. I have done this a handful of times for other things I'm working on, but they're not reflected upstream, yet.

Interesting I assumed this was a known issue from the posts above.

Is there anyway I can help?

I have a couple of old laptops so I could send you if you need a machine, or just test some software?

[bmwcyclist]

Anyone wants to help?

I definitely want to help, but I do have quite a few irons in the fire right now.

I'm gonna be trying to talk some people into beta testing my stuff as well.

If you can give me some details if I can help, I will, and if I can't, I'll help try and sign some people who can.

[jamesdenton]

Appreciate the hardware offer. I'll give it a go in VMware, first, and see if I can replicate it. If the Windows-specific issues can be listed in a bug report (or multiple reports) that would be super helpful. As @TorZidan pointed out, the codebase can be a bit of a mess and isn't necessarily an accurate emulation in various places (including SCC), though there have been quite a few bugs knocked out recently in that regard. A while back I started removing some of the old Sun and PowerPC specific things, but didn't get very far. Might be time to revisit that.

[bmwcyclist]

I'm taking a look through the GitHub things today while I'm traveling.

[bmwcyclist]

Thanks James and Tor. I've opened a pull request on the LisaEm repo for the Windows serial side:

https://github.com/arcanebyte/lisaem/pull/97

It turns on the TelnetD serial option in Windows builds (it was compiled out) and fixes 0xFF data bytes being dropped on every platform, which matters for XMODEM and FujiNet.

With it, I compiled and ran my FujiNet client in LisaEm on Windows 10 and its link tests passed over Serial B through TelnetD. Not built on macOS or Linux, so a check there would be welcome.

One thing we noticed but didn't change: Serial B input is paced to about 5 bytes a second, so file transfers into LisaEm are slow.

Tor, the Windows date fix for LisaFileSystemTool is your issue #1:
https://github.com/TorZidan/LisaFileSystemTool/issues/1