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[andrew]

Hello!

I have a Lisa 2/10. I just got it up and running again with a new X/Profile and a mac2lisa keyboard adapter. The case has a lot of yellowing. I was looking at the FAQ at lisafaq.sunder.net and it has this to say on the topic of cleaning the case, sourced from a post on the original LisaList:

Take the Lisa apart, remove all of the external case panels off the steel frame. DO NOT LEAVE ANY METAL PARTS, ONLY WASH THE PLASTIC! Run them through the 'Pots and Pans' cycle in your dishwasher with a double shot of detergent. This will clean all the dirt and fingerprints off and remove a lot of the yellowing that comes from many years of absorbing the atmosphere. (The author used Sun Light Gel by Lever Brothers, but other detergents may work.)

There have been some discussions on some of the other LEM lists, like the Compact Mac list, that mention cleaning some very smoke yellowed compact case with detergent and bleach and leaving them out in the sun. (Careful, this could damage the plastic.) Source: Dan Pennington, Brooklyn Park, MN / LisaList 2003.09.23

Is it really safe to just throw the case parts into a dishwasher? Has anyone here tried cleaning a Lisa like that? It definitely seems like an easier solution than going through the process of retrobrighting it (I assume that is what the last paragraph is essentially referring to, although this technically predates the coining of that phrase if I'm not mistaken).

[patrick]

Stay away from RetroBrite and similar products. This damages the plastic, it turns yellow again quite quickly afterwards, and it also becomes brittle. This is only good for devices that you want to sell quickly on ebay and that have to look nice for a short time.

This is nothing for a serious collector

[rayarachelian]

I'd agree about staying away from RetroBrite, Lisas are exceedingly rare, a lot fewer exist than previously believed. Be careful with yours. Over time the plastic will get more and more brittle until it will actually break apart. I haven't seen this happen (yet) to Lisas, but I have seen the tabs on the front of the Lisa faceplate break off - though admittedly this was in shipping so it might have been poor packaging.

I've also seen the metal locks on the back of a Lisa break off where they're attached to the plastic - the plastic around them just cracked and the nut fell off with a small rough plastic collar around it leaving a hole in the back panel and no way to hold the back panel in place anymore.

I'd also be careful about using  dishwasher, we don't know if the heat will damage the plastics more. Most sources say don't wash knives with plastic handles in a dishwasher, so certainly don't do that to your Lisa's plastics despite what the FAQ says. Be gentle, use only warm water and gentle detergents.

Melamine "Magic" erasers might work, but they do so by shaving off the top layer of plastic, so I wouldn't do that either.

There's also been some new info about what causes the yellowing, and it's not UV, but rather heat and oxidation - a lot of this has to do with the flame retardants they used back then. You can reverse it just with sunlight or a UV lamp.

see: https://dfarq.homeip.net/retrobright-with-sunlight-and-no-chemicals/ and many others.

[compu_85]

Retrobrite is just bleaching the plastic.

I've done it on my 2/10 with good results. Over the years the yellowing has returned some. If you left it sit for way too long in peroxide I could see it damaging the plastic, but a few hours hasn't in my experience.

Do NOT try it with the gray keycaps. They don't bleach evenly. It's also easy to "burn" the mouse button with this method.

Another option is to just leave the plastic out in strong sunlight. Over the course of a day you'd be amazed how nice the plastic can come out.

The attached photo is a 3.5 drive that was super yellow, that was restored to nearly the original color after sitting in the summer sun for 7 hours. I did go out and move it every couple hours to get rid of shadows.

The nice thing with just using the sun is it's easy to stop once the item is looking better. It takes many hours, so it's hard to over-cook it.

I do expect that floppy drive to turn yellow again over time. But then I'll just leave it out in the sun for a few more hours.

-J