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Author Topic: Lisa Tank Problem  (Read 72909 times)

blusnowkitty

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2021, 08:28:14 pm »
Congratulations on owning the earliest and the oldest production Lisa :)
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conmega

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2021, 06:57:29 am »
Quote from: blusnowkitty on May 17, 2021, 08:28:14 pm
Congratulations on owning the earliest and the oldest production Lisa :)

Heh well it may be the lowest and highest Applenet number known currently. Obviously my "earliest" has a MFG date of: 82355 where as Applenet: 00100067 & 00100271 both have a MFG date of: 82020
I also find it interesting that it seems Applenet ids 00102xxx all seem to match the lower numbers of the S/Ns. As if they reset at 2000?
Also my 2/10 (00111264) has a MFG date of: 4197 where as there are quite a few later in '84 as-well.

Obviously the SNs can't be sequential, the Applenet's appear to be but not in terms of manufacture date. Where Lisas made in more than one plant? If so maybe each plant was given ranges to manufacture? Where I work I believe this is how we function. Lets say Plant A/B can make 100 units a week and Plant C can make 200 units a week. So Plant A gets range 0-100 Plant B gets range 200-300, Plant C gets 300-500. Once the week is over new ranges can be given based on what was actually manufactured and databases can be kept tracking back which plant manufactured which machines.

This would explain the date weirdness, AND if it was manufactured in multiple plants would explain how they could then trace back which plant manufactured which unit.

Purely speculative of-course.
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blusnowkitty

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2021, 09:25:45 am »
Quote from: conmega on May 18, 2021, 06:57:29 am
Where Lisas made in more than one plant? If so maybe each plant was given ranges to manufacture? Where I work I believe this is how we function.

I've heard, admittedly totally unsourced, that the Lisa was first manufactured in Apple's plant in California and then was later transferred to the Apple II plant in Texas.

If we assume that B08B was the California plant and A was the Texas plant then based on this data it seems to me that manufacturing started around February 1982 in California, then by early 1983 they were running both the California and the Texas lines side-by-side, and finally by mid-1983 manufacturing moved completely to Texas.
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blusnowkitty

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2021, 10:40:15 pm »
Did another huge update by digging through old WorthPoint archives... We're currently sitting at around 11,300 systems made as Lisas. Still doesn't account for any of the Mac XLs made in 1985; are we even sure they had serial numbers?

Something else I've noticed is that while AppleNet numbers seem to be sequential, the serial numbers sure aren't.
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rayarachelian

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2021, 10:58:52 am »
Found a nifty one! This one is a very low AppleNet number: 0010081 *but* has a B serial number: B08B823560074


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Zy8AAOSwdxpg4STx/s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184920984056

Needs work cleaning the still present leaky NiCads and corrosion. It's throwing I/O error 50, but considering the other nightmare Lisa's I've seen this one's probably not as hard to repair as it does turn on.

It also looks like the present owner isn't too keen on shipping it and I wouldn't trust it would arrive in one piece if not professionally boxed/wrapped based on their description
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compu_85

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2021, 12:10:44 am »
Quote from: blusnowkitty on June 10, 2021, 10:40:15 pm
... We're currently sitting at around 11,300 systems made as Lisas. ...

Wow... so does that mean over half of the Lisa population was buried in a landfill?

-J
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rayarachelian

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2021, 08:59:24 am »
Quote from: compu_85 on July 07, 2021, 12:10:44 am
Wow... so does that mean over half of the Lisa population was buried in a landfill?

I think it's only ~2700 that were entombed at Logan, so out of the total 11300 left, we don't know of the 8600 how many were 2/10s, which should have survived, and how many were destroyed by NiCad leaks, or just tossed out/recycled by their owners due to age/obsolescence rather than given to others or sold off on ebay, or survived estate sales.
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compu_85

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2021, 12:03:37 pm »
Ah! I had transposed that to 7200 in my head.
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rayarachelian

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2021, 06:31:44 pm »
Quote from: compu_85 on July 07, 2021, 12:03:37 pm
Ah! I had transposed that to 7200 in my head.

Still, I feel there's a lot fewer working Lisas out there than ever estimated. I don't know if I'd want to create or have "A Lisa Registry" due to the privacy implications, but @blusnowkitty's spreadsheet sort of serves that function and as we can see there's only ~134 rows there. Certainly there may be Lisae hiding in people's closets, basements, sheds, attics, and so on, even if there's 10x that number, that's a very small number of machines. :( It's depressing to think about.
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compu_85

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2021, 01:24:16 pm »
IMHO I'm fine with making a registry - I doubt anyone is using a Lisa to prepare their taxes at this point, and tying a machine back to a screen name isn't a big deal IMHO (but - if someone doesn't want to tie their machine back to their SC that's fine, just note the SN in the list!)
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blusnowkitty

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2021, 02:34:05 pm »
Well I found the VSROM that came with my Lisa when I bought it and I've tossed it up in my list. I never noticed until just now but I noticed that there's a "location code" encoded in the VSROM serial. Think that corresponds with the California and Texas plants?

I think I finally have enough data to speculate that at peak, at the A plant anyway, they could produce between 500 to 700 systems a day - I've got enough systems from the 415x date range now to make that guess. There may also be enough data in the 333x ranges to make an educated guess too. This sheet also seems to indicate that AppleNet numbers seem to not be quite as sequential as we thought since it sure looks like to me that both factories produced systems where

Day 1, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00101000 - 00101999
Day 2, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00106000 - 00106999
Day 3, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00102000 - 00102999

and so on and so on.
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rayarachelian

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2021, 03:11:43 pm »
Quote from: blusnowkitty on July 10, 2021, 02:34:05 pm
Well I found the VSROM that came with my Lisa when I bought it and I've tossed it up in my list. I never noticed until just now but I noticed that there's a "location code" encoded in the VSROM serial. Think that corresponds with the California and Texas plants?

Which part is that again? Visible in Service Mode? Sticker on the ROM? Part of the SN?
Edit: oh right: p78: http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applelisa/AppleLisa%20-%20Good%20Things%20to%20Know.pdfand https://www.applefritter.com/content/apple-lisa-serial-number-info

Code: [Select]
First remove every other nibble like this:
    00000240   0F0F 0002 0802 0002 0000 0400 0300 0F0F
 240    F F  0 2  8 2  0 2  0 0  4 0  3 0  F F
Then group the numbers as follows:
    Number of the Nibble in Hex   01 23 45 678 9ABC D EF
    Address                240    FF 02 82 020 0403 0 FF
                                  XX PP YY DDD SSSS X XX
    Extract the serial number from this group of 16 nibbles as follows:
    a. Ignore nibbles 0,1,D,E and F, marked as XX or X above.
 b. Nibbles 2 and 3 are the two digit plant code (PP).
 c. Nibbles 4 and 5 are the two digit year code (YY).
 d. Nibbles 6, 7 and 8 are the day of the year code (DDD).
 e. Nibbles 9 thru C are the 4 digit serial number (SSSS).
The Applenet Number is similarly embedded in the first 8 bytes of the next
 line of the memory dump. So, using the same method as step 4 above, we get:
    00000250   0000 0100 0004 0102 0002 0900 0000 0000
         250    0 0  1 0  0 4  1 2  0 2  9 0  0 0  0 0
    Number of the Nibble in Hex
                           012 34567 89ABCDEF
    Address       250      001 00412 02900000
                           PPP NNNNN XXXXXXXX
7. To extract the Applenet Number:
    a. Ignore nibbles 8 through F, marked as XXXXXXXX above.
 b. Nibbles 0, 1 and 2 are the AppleNet prefix (PPP).
 c. Nibbles 3 thru 7 are the AppleNet number (NNNNN).
Quote from: blusnowkitty on July 10, 2021, 02:34:05 pm
This sheet also seems to indicate that AppleNet numbers seem to not be quite as sequential as we thought since it sure looks like to me that both factories produced systems where

Day 1, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00101000 - 00101999
Day 2, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00106000 - 00106999
Day 3, 1000 systems made with Applenet 00102000 - 00102999

So then that would imply the ceiling is actually under 10K? Maybe 8K units instead of 13K?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 10:37:07 pm by rayarachelian »
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compu_85

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2021, 09:23:14 pm »
Here's the SN of the System Source Muesum's Lisa 1 I got to help work on this weekend:

https://twitter.com/compu_85/status/1414245531212304396/photo/1

It has no sn sticker.

-J
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rayarachelian

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2021, 09:49:59 am »
Awesome! Thank you! Best of luck repairing it.
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compu_85

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Re: Lisa Tank Problem
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2021, 07:11:24 am »
More photos of AppleNet number 33 here: http://www.macgeek.org/museum/applelisa1/

I was also thinking about the manf date in the System Source Lisa 1's VSROM... 82380. Aren't there only 365 days in a year  :o

-J
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