Re: Lisa Office System and GUI

Marcin,

I am aware of Raskin and Horn's Apple GUI commentary. It has lots of good information. There was lots of good work done in this area by Apple. Though many GUI aspects were not original to Apple, Apple did pioneer a few areas and also improved many others.

Concerning the Lisa's icon-based GUI, Horn told me many years ago that he actually originated this when he started his Finder work on the Macintosh and showed Bill Atkinson his early Finder prototype. Atkinson then changed the Lisa's GUI from a dialog-based UI to the icon-based UI.

Also, I have not forgotten about scanning the Lisa ads I have. I just moved to a new house and have not had time to do this scanning. Will do so by the next week.

• David Craig

  ---

> Hi David,
>
> very interesting, in deed !
> I also recommend this article (hope the link is still alive) published
> by Glen Sanford with permission of Bruce Horn and Jef Raskin. You can
> find there some remarkable details between the lines of the 5 page
> dialogue !!! (Copyright 1996 by Bruce Horn and Jef Raskin. Used by
> permission. Source: www.apple-history.com 2004)
> "...Where It All Began
>
> For more than a decade now, I've listened to the debate about where the
> Macintosh user interface came from. Most people assume it came directly
> from Xerox, after Steve Jobs went to visit Xerox PARC (Palo Alto
> Research Center). This "fact" is reported over and over, by people who
> don't know better (and also by people who should!). Unfortunately, it
> just isn't true - there are some similarities between the Apple
> interface and the various interfaces on Xerox systems, but the
> differences are substantial...."
>
> And the following Lines are very interesting, cause Jef Raskin didn't
> agree with Bruce Horn's notes, so a very very very interesting
> discussion began and there you can read some remarkable facts, who
> cloned what (or even copied from whom) and then tried to tell the rest
> of the world that something revolutionary new has been invented.
> Unfortunately nearly 99% of all SchWINdoof-users believe that
> Pro-Microsoft fairytale today. Cause they don't know.
> I have to translate: the word SchWINdoof is a german expression, which
> consits of 3 mixed parts:
> Sch... (for the german word of shit)
> SchWIN... (for the german word of swindler)
> WIN (the only winner in the 90ies Apple vs. Microsoft has been Billy
> with a very strange working justice, we all know)
> doof (means silly or stupid. This is what you become, when you use
> MS-Software every day, scientists say)
>
> I hope, Dan will not kick off me from the List, due to this words. If
> somebody doesn't agree with that, just keep in mind: Homour is a wide
> wide field, with some sharp stones in it.
> But I believe there are similar expressions in every language around
> the world.
> I saw some similarities in a modified spot in U.K. "Where do you want
> to go today" was changed in "Where can we go today?" With a the word
> can on a papertray... :-)))
>
> And another short anecdote, I found in the web (don't know, whether
> Roger Ebert did really say that):
> Life is too short to use anything but a Mac. -- Roger Ebert
>
> To get back into reality: here's the link, concerning who copied what,
> and what who invented new:
>
> www.apple-history.com/support_files/gui_horn1
> or try
> www.apple-history.com
> and search then for GUI in the year 1984 or history
>
> This site is always in construction and there are always modifications.
> If you cannot find that, just give a short note and I will send you the
> text by mail. It's worth reading it.
>
> David, you should perhaps remember, cause there are also this lines:
> "...David Craig, a computer history buff, asks if I have the memo on
> the design of the one-button mouse. I don't know, someday I may have
> time to go through my papers and find out...."
>
> greetings TOM from Bavaria
> more humour ? Check this: www.deschler-web.de/Bilder/gaids.jpg
> In a world without walls or fences, who needs windows or gates?
>
>
>
> Am 09.01.2005 um 08:08 schrieb Shirl:
>>
>>> ...and he [Bill Gates / Microsfot] needed several years to copy GUI -
>>> WOW !
>>
>> As far as I know, Microsoft's GUI efforts in the early years were
>> based more
>> on Xerox's STAR work than on Apple Lisa work. As such, Microsoft's GUI
>> work
>> was not really a copy of Apple's GUI work, thoght similarities do
>> exist.
>> ...
>
>
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