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rayarachelian:
--- Quote from: pintoguy on May 10, 2022, 07:36:51 pm ---OK so I did some work on these floppies. I have three of them. One is an Install2 disk with a serial number starting with 7IN. The other two are Install1 and Install2 with a serial number starting with 8IN.
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Excellent!
--- Quote from: pintoguy on May 10, 2022, 07:36:51 pm ---After IPA cleanup (yes IPA works very well for me - I have revived dozens of bad floppies using it), I was actually able to read the file "Install Omnis" from the 7IN-Install2 disk on my Lisa, and copied it on the Lisa 10MB widget HDD. Installation seems to have worked if done from the HD, but failed when done from the FDD (failure to display a window). Once installed, Omnis needs to be run in its own environment. However, when launching, it requires the "Master Disk", and none of the floppy disks get accepted.
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So by own environment, do you mean press Apple-Enter on start up to get the Environments window and select it from there? That's a weird way to write an LOS app, but ok. Glad the IPA worked, there's some danger of it damaging the media, but glad it worked!
--- Quote from: pintoguy on May 10, 2022, 07:36:51 pm ---I used DiskIIMac to make floppy copies, using the "sector mode". The "bit mode" did not work too well. After writing these diskettes, I was able to make diskcopy4.2 images, which I'm attaching.
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Did you mean CopyIIMac?
--- Quote from: pintoguy on May 10, 2022, 07:36:51 pm ---Perhaps someone will be able to take it from here. Using fedit, I suspect that the the Install1 floppy is simply a Lisa 7/7 boot floppy, whereas the Install2 disks are the Omnis programs. Again, fedit tells me that IN7 is likely Omnis 3.2 whereas IN8 is version 3.3. Also 8IN-Install1 is the worst with about 40 out of the 80 tracks throwing errors, whereas In7-Install2 (one bad track #73) and IN8-Install2 (two bad tracks #51 and 79) are quite a bit better.
Finally, I was not able to successfully use BLU to read these disks. When checking them, it seems to get stuck on the first read error and requires reboot.
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Surprised that BLU failed, but glad you got some of the bits off. If we get lucky in the future and find some more Omnis disks, maybe we can get a full set at some point! Awesome job! Hang on to the originals, never know when some other tool/technique will come up that might help get it further.
Obviously whatever media's worn out or wiped isn't going to be recoverable, but maybe there's other things that can be done, such as using a 1.44M Apple SuperDrive floppy to read them which has a narrow head. That might help (or hinder) depending on where the damage is, and whether or not the head is slightly off-center track-wise, and if you're lucky you might hit an area that hasn't been damaged, etc.
pintoguy:
Yes, CopyIIMac, sorry for the confusion. And yes, Apple-Enter on startup. See screenshot pics.
I also thought about the FDD reader head, and whether a wider head would be better or worse. The cross-track width is probably similar for DD and HD (both 80 tracks per side), but it's the down-track reader length that changes, as HD floppies have twice the kbpi (kilobit per inch). My conclusion was that a SD drive with a longer reader would have a higher SN ratio, and hence be a better choice for scratched SD floppies. That would be a nice experiment to try, and it's on my list (I used an HD drive here on a Mac Classic). On the other side, BLU run on the SS/LD Lisa drive also threw errors.
Regarding IPA, since I'm a chemist by training, I always wanted to make my own opinion, since I know IPA is not a known solvent for most plastics. So I tried on dummy blank floppies from my collection (a few different brands), and then on program floppies of little rarity. I also checked a few youtube videos on the topic, and all used rubbing alcohol (aka IPA). So I guess my question to this board is: Would anyone have FIRST HAND data showing that IPA messes with the floppy, either the magnetic coating, or the plastic substrate ??
rayarachelian:
Wow, it really is it's own Environment.
blusnowkitty:
I wonder if there's any relevance to looking at Omnis3 for Mac or if the two are completely separate codebases... I'm too tired, I'll dig into it some more later.
https://winworldpc.com/product/omnis/3x
stepleton:
In re IPA, I looked back into some old discussions. Al Kossow (who has tersely advocated against IPA here) says elsewhere that in his experience, it damages the binder (that presumably attaches magnetic media to the substrate), and I assume not the plastic itself.
Lubrication is cited as an additional cyclomethicone benefit, although it obviously cannot help this way once it has evaporated away.
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