LisaList2
General Category => LisaList2 => Topic started by: stepleton on October 04, 2021, 05:07:01 pm
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Disreputable things (https://twitter.com/compu_85/status/1444817870689538048) are underway on Twitter.
Keep scrolling, it gets worse ;D
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Very very very nice! 8)
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@compu_85 - so the next thing you need to do is load up DONKEY.BAS and run that - if I recall (in)correctly, that's the last program billyg wrote himself.
https://blog.codinghorror.com/bill-gates-and-donkey-bas/ (https://blog.codinghorror.com/bill-gates-and-donkey-bas/)
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I saw this post yesterday. Been-there, done-that a long time ago. I personally have been using SoftPC on my Lisa's since 1994. I even have had made lot of tweeks to make this work better.
1. I use a version of SoftPC called "Entry Level SoftPC", this version is optimized for 68000 ( not 68020 +) based systems.
2. I made a special font called DOS13 that is a 13 point font to run full screen on a screen mod Lisa at full resolution.
3. I had James add a special option to the MacWorks+II Keypad control to add extra keys needed that the stock Lisa does not have. This remaps the clear key on the num pad to be a needed key using SoftPC.
4. Under MW+II with the 18Mhz XLerator this runs quite well, runs as fast as a real PC-AT if I remember correctly.
I can provide more info if folks are interested.
Rick
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Running Donkey would be a nicely bad piece of software to run in SoftPC.
Rick, do you happen to remember what version of MW+II that was in? I've got 2.5.0 Pro.
I'll have to try Entry Level SoftPC and see if it runs any faster. SPC 3.0 is quite slow on my 16mhz "XL".
I promise, no permanent harm will come to the Lisa as part of this exercise!!
-J
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Rick, do you happen to remember what version of MW+II that was in? I've got 2.5.0 Pro.
At work right now...I will post more info on my setup later tonight.
Rick
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Running Donkey would be a nicely bad piece of software to run in SoftPC.
Exactly the point. ;)
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Running Donkey would be a nicely bad piece of software to run in SoftPC.
Exactly the point. ;)
I promise, no permanent harm will come to the Lisa as part of this exercise!!
Other than this poor Lisa will feel dirty and slimy from having had to do run PC software. Be sure to give it a thorough cleaning afterwards.
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OK, Here is Donkey.
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She does run faster than an PCXT..
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I am running MW+II 2.5.3. This is the keypad CP, note I had James add the "use option as Ctrl" buttons many many years ago. Otherwise it's impossible to get a control key as SoftPC thinks this is MacPlus keyboard with an "=" key on the numpad.
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Other than this poor Lisa will feel dirty and slimy from having had to do run PC software. Be sure to give it a thorough cleaning afterwards.
Note that the Lisa System Overview brochure dated Jan 1984 specifically states that MS-DOS will be available in the (future) !
I just wanted you to know that it is now the future and MS-DOS is running on a Lisa....
Rick
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That is interesting, I wonder what they had in mind. Expansion slot co-processor card maybe? or MSFT porting MS-DOS to 68000?
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That is interesting, I wonder what they had in mind. Expansion slot co-processor card maybe? or MSFT porting MS-DOS to 68000?
I'm sure it would have been an 8088 expansion card given DOS was written entirely in x86 assembly which would have been a pain to port to pure 68000 assembly. Then you'd have to deal with applications targeting x86 vs 68000, something they'd find out the hard way with ports of NT for x86, PowerPC, Alpha, MIPS R4000 and none of them being able to run programs for the other architecture... Not like today where our computers are so powerful we can just brute force emulate/translate like Rosetta and SysWOW64 on ARM Windows!
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I'm sure it would have been an 8088 expansion card given DOS was written entirely in x86 assembly which would have been a pain to port to pure 68000 assembly....
True, but at the time Microsoft was no slave to x86. They had 8080 (Z80), 6502, 8086 (8088), and 6809 versions of Basic. I am sure if the marketed had demanded it a 68000 version MS-DOS was possible, especially considering CP/M 68K was already a thing.
Point is that unlike the Macintosh, the Lisa was designed to support multiple operating systems. ( Yet running MacOS on Lisa seems to get no love.. )
Rick
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She does run faster than an PCXT..
Hmm. Why would your 18mhz machine be so much faster than my 16mhz one? Is there a big improvement with Macworks Plus 2.5.3?
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True, but at the time Microsoft was no slave to x86. They had 8080 (Z80), 6502, 8086 (8088), and 6809 versions of Basic. I am sure if the marketed had demanded it a 68000 version MS-DOS was possible, especially considering CP/M 68K was already a thing.
Yeah, that's the thing, if you look at Multiplan and some of the other office apps MSFT had ported to other systems, they went with a VM before the JVM was even a thing. Not sure if the Pascal P-Code thing was first, though it was around 1977, so it might predate multiplan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplan vs http://pascal.hansotten.com/ucsd-p-system/ and yes, was thinking about a DOS for 68000 natively in the same vein as CP/M68k.
Point is that unlike the Macintosh, the Lisa was designed to support multiple operating systems. ( Yet running MacOS on Lisa seems to get no love.. )
Eh, I mean, I did build out one of my Lisae to be optimized for MacWorks, but yeah, I tend to just launch mini vMac instead or Basilisk II. (And yes, I do have many actual Macs from the 128 all the way to quadras and PPCs.) - but it's rare for me to power on a Mac or for that matter an actual Lisa, though I do love tinkering and repairing these machines.
For many years my Lisa was my Mac, running MacWorks until I built a hackintosh from the IIcx motherboard with a PC power supply and other parts (as in Bob Brandt (sp?) "Build Your Own Macintosh and Save a Bundle" book - and then after that I bought an actual 7100 as my main machine. I did have PCs but mostly they were just background machines, used for when I needed to use them rather than preferred. Mostly I used whatever Mac was the newest most cable 99% of the time, or Sun Microsystems hardware (and yes, I did run MAE on my SPARC 5 and later ones too.)
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Hmm. Why would your 18mhz machine be so much faster than my 16mhz one? Is there a big improvement with Macworks Plus 2.5.3?
I don't think is has anything to do with MW+II 2.5.3 vs. 2.5.0
I never had the original XLerator 16, but my understanding is the later 12.5 and 18 models have faster RAM ( Zero wait-states ).
I think the real difference here is using the "Entry Level" SoftPC version that is optimized for slower systems.
Rick
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I'll give it a try and see if it makes a difference!
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I'll give it a try and see if it makes a difference!
Let me know if you have trouble installing EL SoftPC. I have a licensed copy with the original disks, manual, and install password. This software has several anti-priracy mechanisms that will fight you.
Rick
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I'll give it a try and see if it makes a difference!
Don't bother compu_85. I tried Universal SoftPC 2.5 ( demonstration version ) on the Lisa last night and the speed is same as orginal setup with a Norton SI rating of 1.5
FWIW, I also tested Universal SoftPC 2.5 on my dual 1 Ghz MDD G4 and I get a Norton SI rating around 340!
Rick
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Thanks for checking for me!
I find dos programs run fine, but Windows 2 is just very slow. which is fine for this demo!
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So my system did revolt a bit.... the surface mount caps on the floppy drive gave out, so it began reading intermittently. The ST412 to SCSI bridge for the hard drive also forgot that it's supposed to be a hard drive... I had to re-load its settings but thankfully didn't have to low level format.
-J