LisaList2

Hello!

I just purchased a very used but well outfitted MacXL

It has the screen mod (I would like this removed)
XLerator 16mhz
800 floppy
Sun Remarketing ROMS
Sun Remarketing SCSI HD card and HD
Widget

Issues:

PSU Dead. Using my spare for now.

Monitor is BLANK, no sign of turning on other than red glow at the business end (see photos)
If I run video off of the RCA port I get a mess but I can see that it will pass post and make it to the prompt asking what to boot from (If I unhook the widget anyway)

If I put the card cage in my 2/10 it will come to the boot device prompt screen but the video will be crunched and adjusting the PSU controls do not fix it. ( I don't want to mess with my 2/10 video pots ) If I try to boot to the ESProfile I get garbage when I should have the selector.

Strangely, putting the CPU card into my 2/10 I get the same issue.

Moving the XLerator to my other CPU card everything looks good and boots to MacWorks. (though a strange amount of RAM under info..)

Can't get the video from the XL cage to sync with RGBTOHDMI



So....

1. What do you think is wrong with the monitor?

2. What is up with not booting to the selector? (or at least it not being readable)

3. Why did the video issue 'follow' the CPU card?

4. How do I undo the screen mod?

New XLerator card running on 2/10 CPU card in 2/10 computer.

Odd RAM size.

The Selector does not work with the screen mod at present (and the video state ROM in your card cage is probably enough of the screen mod to cause trouble). The garbage is likely the ordinary Selector screen failing to display well with the screen mod's screen geometry. Use the arrow keys (or keypad 8 and 2) and odds are that the black selected text will move up and down the screen.

One of the things I might do with my own LisaFPGA is develop an updated Selector that supports regular and modified screen geometries.

Thanks!

Know of any source of H roms?

Any thoughts on the monitor issue?

QuoteXLerator ...
Odd RAM size.

The video shows the XLerator control panel reporting "2MB in Bank 0, 512K in Bank 1". This would be accurate if there are two 1MB SIMMs and two 256K SIMMs.

Later in the video, the MaxiRAM control panel says there is a potential 2016K cache. That would be from 2MB of slot RAM less the 32K used for the video bitmap.

QuoteKnow of any source of H roms?

ROM images are on Bitsavers... https://bitsavers.org/bits/Apple/Lisa/firmware/

If you don't already have one, you can buy an inexpensive programmer or phone a friend.

Quote3. Why did the video issue 'follow' the CPU card?
4. How do I undo the screen mod?

The digital portion of the video circuitry is on the CPU card. It is controlled largely by the 20 pin "Video PROM" in the socket at 6C. When you move the CPU card, the video characteristics go with it.

To undo the screen mod, you need to:

• replace the Video PROM U6C
• replace the two CPU EPROMs U13D, U14D,
• remove (disconnect, you don't need to remove it if it is attached to the chassis) the autotransformer connected between the video board and the CRT yoke
• probably adjust the trimpots on the video board so the image fits the CRT in a reasonable way

Thank you!

That just leaves figuring out why the screen isn't displaying a picture.

Quote from: sigma7 link=msg=5877If you don't already have one, you can buy an inexpensive programmer or phone a friend.

Things don't seem well labeled there. Does that also include the video ROMs?

Do you know what EEPROM chips are used?

[/quote]

The video shows the XLerator control panel reporting "2MB in Bank 0, 512K in Bank 1". This would be accurate if there are two 1MB SIMMs and two 256K


[/quote]

I'm an idiot. Thank you. for some reason when I saw the KB I lost my mind. I've been dealing in modern memory sizes too much.

The video PROM is the hard one — that bipolar PROM can't be burned on my GQ-4X4.

 Any pre-burned spares?

Update!

I removed the screen kit transformer. Well, technically just unplugged it.

And now I'm getting video!

The brightness seems to be fluctuating a little bit and the HOR PHASE pot is really twitchy. I know my power supply is good because it works fine in my 2/10.

I booted off my floppy EMU into MAC Works and the SCSI hard drive seems to be doing great!

I'm wondering if I need to recap the video board?

The keyboard is not being recognized, so I'm off to troubleshoot that next.

QuoteThings don't seem well labeled there. Does that also include the video ROMs?

Do you know what EEPROM chips are used?

Pages such as https://wiki.reactivemicro.com/Apple_Chip_Designations can be helpful.

The Video PROMs are almost all the files that are 256 bytes. The CPU Board ROMs are the 341-0175/6 files.

The rectangular pixel version of the video PROM contains the serial number, so was originally unique (aside from a few, presumably unintentional, duplicates), hence multiple files which will be the same except for the serial number. The screen mod PROM version is the same for all Lisas with square pixels as it does not contain a serial number.

However, the P6A Woz Machine PROM on the earlier Lisa 1/2 I/O Board is also 256 bytes. The I/O one is the 342-0172A part (Although the contents are the same as the Apple ][ Disk Controller which has a different pn). The 2/10 I/O Board does not use this part.

The Video PROMs are 256x8 bipolar PROMs, which are now rare and thus expensive (they are one-time programmable so cannot be erased and reused, unlike EPROMs). However ...

I believe the appropriate adapters that facilitate using an EPROM in a PROM socket will work in this case, but I do not have experience with any of them. It is possible that some designs will interfere with installing an XLerator as well.

The CPU Board EPROMs are a pair the size of 2764s with a speed of approximately 400ns or less. They can be any of the 28 pin DIP variants, eg. 27C64, 2764A, etc.

QuoteThe brightness seems to be fluctuating a little bit and the HOR PHASE pot is really twitchy. I know my power supply is good because it works fine in my 2/10.

I'm wondering if I need to recap the video board?

Those are symptoms of dirty trimpots on the video board. You can try cleaning them with "contact cleaner", or replace them. As a temporary solution, wiggling them a bit might fix it for a while.

Fantastic information thank you that will set me on my way!

I want to back up the sun Microsystems SCSI hard drive and controller before I put them up for sale but bizarrely I can't seem to get both the SCSI and the ESProfile to mount on the desktop at the same time.

If I boot from a floppy Mac Works, I get the sun remarketing on the desktop and as the boot volume. If I boot from the ESprofile I just get it the ESProfile volume mounted.


I tried loading the extensions for my Asante SCSI Appletalk thinking I just copy it over the local network but it locks up on boot right as the extension loads.

Other than trying to upgrade the SCSI drive to system 6.0.8, which I know works with The Asante Appletalk I can't think of any other options, unless someone knows a way to make the profile and the Sun Microsystems SCSI happy together.

While typing this up, it occurred to me that I haven't tried booting off of the ESprofile without using the selector maybe I should try that?

The Sun Microsystems SCSI drive is a lot cooler than I thought it would be. It's nice having the Lisa boot up quickly from a quiet hard drive.

My plan is to recover some of the money from the LISA purchase by selling the sun SCSI/card, but I've really got no idea what they're worth.

I know one of the cards without the hard drive has been for sale on eBay for a very long time so I guess I could consider that too high of a price.

If I get really really unexpectedly lucky, maybe the widget drive will work and I could sell that. Again, I have no idea what that would be worth. I'm currently getting that 8X something error that indicates from the troubleshooting guide it might be just the lock not disengaging.

I suspect the 800 K floppy is only worth peanuts and best just kept with the machine. That might also be nice because being currently over budget, I don't have the money for another floppy EMU.

If I can make enough money off of the accessories that came with the LISA and some of the old Apple ][ and Macintosh computers I'm putting up on eBay, I hope to be able to keep the second Lisa for a while so when I go to the local computer shows to do demos, I'm not risking my original pride and joy LISA.

I suspect, eventually, will have to sell it.

 
It also came with something I've never seen before a glare screen that goes between the CRT and the front cover. It's in pretty good shape with only one tiny little spot in the front. Are those collectible?

Here are the EEproms I've ordered from Amazon. I hope those will do.