LisaList2

Quote from: berskyboy on Yesterday at 06:07:37 PMOK so leaving it disconnected and making sure the back connector on the PSU is engaged (or the back cover is on), there should be life. 

There isn't but I think I need to watch Adrian's videos and again and check the cable I made to the motherboard.  I made a 60pin cable.  Is there another way to test it by passing the on button/or soft switch?

Do you recommend doing a bench controlled testing like Adrian has done also?

Normally, a Lisa will power up if you plug it in with the I/O Board missing, so you could try that first. (It won't run normally of course, but there will be signs of life.)

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "bench controlled testing", but given the adventure with the PSU, I recommend working on this Lisa complete rather than working on it apart.

Perhaps you should start by posting pictures of what you have, including:

• The 60 pin cable you made, showing all connectors
• Which motherboard you have
• Which I/O Board you have

edit: I see now that a while ago it was established that you have a Lisa 1/5 motherboard and 2/10 I/O Board. We should still review what cable you've made.

Quote from: sigma7 on Yesterday at 06:37:43 PMNormally, a Lisa will power up if you plug it in with the I/O Board missing, so you could try that first. (It won't run normally of course, but there will be signs of life.)

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "bench controlled testing", but given the adventure with the PSU, I recommend working on this Lisa complete rather than working on it apart.

Perhaps you should start by posting pictures of what you have, including:

• The 60 pin cable you made, showing all connectors

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Here's a few photos of the cable that I made following what Adrian's Basement videos showed

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kdqdkmva3xj13tmifhd8z/IMG_3480.jpeg?rlkey=vswnxhj2fmnnebfebfy4c7uhw&st=q8wpzkxp&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jrlrna9nh1znw2jlrm0p1/IMG_3811.jpeg?rlkey=fxr1d0j6dhl8ct2tr6sqabhs3&st=ahcxnigj&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/djxyem64bql41xh7lrpd6/IMG_3812.jpeg?rlkey=gylliz4h4592g3tdtgdc08f4a&st=op7e0vmt&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/igjy89juib3ivkkbwaigy/IMG_3813.jpeg?rlkey=kvosr84z1su75pgahy54u4r73&st=xibt4bg6&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e198f1gqd9p9f2cqbo4pp/IMG_3814.jpeg?rlkey=e3zv44p7270fn5xekb4ebox8d&st=dmqjmw0e&dl=0

EDIT: AI said this, which might be correct. 
"Looking closely at your photos, you have made a classic, very easy-to-make mistake when crimping a new ribbon cable. Your IDC10 connector is mirrored / flipped 180 degrees backwards. Here is the exact visual proof from your photos and how to fix it so your Lisa can finally boot."

I was trying my best to line up things as Adriane had done it.  But is this correct?

Quote from: berskyboy on Yesterday at 09:24:37 PM

Quote from: sigma7 on Yesterday at 06:37:43 PMNormally, a Lisa will power up if you plug it in with the I/O Board missing, so you could try that first. (It won't run normally of course, but there will be signs of life.)

EDIT: AI said this, which might be correct. 
"Looking closely at your photos, you have made a classic, very easy-to-make mistake when crimping a new ribbon cable. Your IDC10 connector is mirrored / flipped 180 degrees backwards. Here is the exact visual proof from your photos and how to fix it so your Lisa can finally boot."

I was trying my best to line up things as Adriane had done it.  But is this correct?

Did you tell AI that it is a Lisa chassis cable? It seems to think it is a generic one.

That part of the cable looks ok to me, but perhaps you should use your DMM to confirm a couple of signals on the keyboard jack/power button board go to the correct pins on the motherboard's I/O Board socket.

Can't see other connectors on the ribbon cable, so might not be appropriate for the mixed Lisa 1/5 and 2/10 I/O Board configuration.

I do see a Widget power connector, so that makes it a 2/10 chassis originally FYI.

Does it power up with the I/O Board removed?

Quote from: sigma7 on Today at 02:24:17 PMDid you tell AI that it is a Lisa chassis cable? It seems to think it is a generic one.

That part of the cable looks ok to me, but perhaps you should use your DMM to confirm a couple of signals on the keyboard jack/power button board go to the correct pins on the motherboard's I/O Board socket.

Can't see other connectors on the ribbon cable, so might not be appropriate for the mixed Lisa 1/5 and 2/10 I/O Board configuration.

I do see a Widget power connector, so that makes it a 2/10 chassis originally FYI.

Does it power up with the I/O Board removed?

Here's a photo of all the boards,

Lisa Back
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i2hiofw1dsdzg2alg7jlu/Lisa-Back.HEIC?rlkey=i55sz6kk1pobml73a6cfv390p&st=t872wwhw&dl=0

Lisa CPU
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/viwa9olx10z2qgxr4iiwf/Lisa-CPUs.HEIC?rlkey=9h44vhi7gjiunx0orfbr64cfw&st=53mudtrl&dl=0

Lisa IO
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h9twndkulcidvx4zpdsre/Lisa-IO.HEIC?rlkey=odw1zx17r9cciw07d2dl5qvu7&st=ki4v2aph&dl=0

Lisa Motherboard
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zwfknardblj610p68vg6r/Lisa-Motherboard.HEIC?rlkey=56ic8stt9mb682hebqb3ka6iy&st=xatchreg&dl=0

Lisa RAM
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6cg9ivzgkhxh25nmazhh8/Lisa-RAM.HEIC?rlkey=z8d5v82dnjnc5i4w3bh38f2dr&st=i99a7jif&dl=0

I tried to boot up without IO board still doesn't boot, no sounds.  I will try and use my DMM next test, but not sure where to measure.

Quote from: berskyboy on Today at 04:06:46 PMI tried to boot up without IO board still doesn't boot, no sounds.  I will try and use my DMM next test, but not sure where to measure.

Without the I/O Board, there is nothing driving the speaker, and it can't access any peripherals, so don't expect sounds or boot.

Does anything at all happen when you plug it in with everything intact (in place) except the I/O Board missing?

Quote from: sigma7 on Today at 04:22:16 PMWithout the I/O Board, there is nothing driving the speaker, and it can't access any peripherals, so don't expect sounds or boot.

Does anything at all happen when you plug it in with everything intact (in place) except the I/O Board missing?

No no sounds, I was trying to heard any clicking, the bulb on the Apple Button / Keyboard Board might be burnt out, should I instead try the 3 and 4th pins with a header and check with the DMM?

EDIT:
Also I wanted to know if this is my Hardware from the photos:

1. The Motherboard / Backplane
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 Motherboard (Part number 620-0108-C is clearly stamped in white ink).
• The Context: This explains the 8-pin or 10-pin confusion. A true 2/10 motherboard does not utilize the loose 9-pin hanging harness bundle for power injection like the Lisa 1/5 did. Instead, the Lisa 2/10 motherboard routes its power channels entirely through the edge slot architecture when the cards slide home.
2. The I/O Board
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 I/O Board (Part number 820-4039-A is visible on the left edge, and the COP421 chip sits on the right).
• The Match: This board is the native electrical partner to your 620-0108-C motherboard.
3. The CPU Card & Memory Boards
• What they are: A standard Lisa CPU board (820-4009-B) housing the purple/gold Motorola 68000, paired with two standard 512K RAM memory boards (820-4010-A).

not sure if AI got it right.

Quote from: berskyboy on Today at 04:55:45 PMAlso I wanted to know if this is my Hardware from the photos:

1. The Motherboard / Backplane
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 Motherboard (Part number 620-0108-C is clearly stamped in white ink).
• The Context: This explains the 8-pin or 10-pin confusion. A true 2/10 motherboard does not utilize the loose 9-pin hanging harness bundle for power injection like the Lisa 1/5 did. Instead, the Lisa 2/10 motherboard routes its power channels entirely through the edge slot architecture when the cards slide home.
2. The I/O Board
• What it is: Lisa 2/10 I/O Board (Part number 820-4039-A is visible on the left edge, and the COP421 chip sits on the right).
• The Match: This board is the native electrical partner to your 620-0108-C motherboard.
3. The CPU Card & Memory Boards
• What they are: A standard Lisa CPU board (820-4009-B) housing the purple/gold Motorola 68000, paired with two standard 512K RAM memory boards (820-4010-A).

not sure if AI got it right.

No, surprise, AI did not get it right.

It was mostly right for CPU and Memory Boards...
CPU boards come in multiple versions, but for the most part they are all interchangeable. Only the oldest ones produced had the purple/gold ceramic 68000, most have plastic 68000s; since this is in a socket, it can be moved from board to board: this is not a useful identifier.

All the Apple 512K Memory boards are the same, unless it has been modified to be a 2MB board... the modifications are obvious when you see one.

For the I/O Board, it is indeed a 2/10 I/O Board, however the COP421 is not a way to distinguish Lisa I/O Boards as they all have one in the same place. AI made that up, as no-one has ever suggested such a thing. One primary identifier is the 2/10 I/O Board has the three large chips at the top left, the 1/5 I/O Board has two.

The Motherboard is not the 2/10 variety. The primary identifier is the number of DB-25 connectors on the back panel: The 2/10 has two, the 1/5 has three.

The 9 pin connector is for Widget power, it did not exist to provide power to the 1/5 motherboard. Again, AI made that up, as it is completely incorrect.

In the future, my corrections (if any) for AI errors are likely to be limited to "No". By all means use it for suggestions for what to research, but don't trust its advice.

Yes,

I agree and sort of dipping my toes in the AI pool to get suggestions but 💯 trust you a human over Ai.  Again I'm so grateful for your help.

I will send more photos later tonight.  I'm thinking maybe I need to put alcohol on all the connectors. 

Got the PSU working now I need to focus on the connectors.

Glad to help.

There are numerous threads troubleshooting very similar symptoms in the past.