LisaList2

Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on October 05, 2026, 07:45:45 PMThey should be connected.

Hi Alex, thanks for that, I've twist-tied them together and when I plug the power cord into the PSU, I hear a faint "click", then nothing on the screen or other sounds.  If I un-plug it and do that same thing, a faint "click".  So I'm thinking maybe it starts, then shuts down?  The PSU has been re-built and tested with @sigma7's wonderful help.

I took out the IO card same behaviour.  I will try a few others things, but wanted to update the forum on that status.

I'm getting VIDEO and beeps!!! Well from an external video.

So I'm thinking the Apple Lisa Video card has issues, and/or the 12in tube.  Here's the video

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T7QZOB-Ilxc

EDIT:
The video board was missing and I bought it one of eBay.  I didn't bench test or recap it.  (I've ordered the caps from DijiKey and Amazon and will recap the Video board)
The CRT was mounted upside down when I got it from the auction, maybe symbolizing a dead 12in CRT?

EDIT2: I also hooked-up the mouse and keyboard.  I can see the mouse moving, (the screen is not the right frequency) but I can see that it moves, how do I test the keyboard?

I am certain that the Apple monitor used in the video is not capable of properly rendering the Lisa video signal. Only 2 monitor models can render it (none are made by Apple).
The Lisa seems to be turning on and showing the startup screen. Nice.
Turn the pots on the back on the power supply, maybe the contrast is set to it's lowest? If not, you will need to troubleshoot the analog video card on the Lisa. Warning, again: the high voltages on it and on the tube can kill you.

That's a very nice looking Lisa, with no yellowing on the plastics. Congrats!

Yeah, that's exactly what you should expect to see on that monitor, given that it's not capable of syncing to the Lisa's video signal. This confirms that everything in your card cage is at least mostly working.

You're getting low-high-high beeps though, which means that you have a RAM error. One of the memory chips on one of the two RAM boards probably went bad, or a board could also just be making a bad connection with its slot. First try reseating both boards, but if that doesn't fix the problem, then you'll need to go into Service Mode and follow the instructions at this link to figure out which chip is bad. But obviously you can't do that until the video board is fixed!

https://lisafaq.sunder.net/single.html#lisafaq-hw-mem_error

To test the keyboard, try pressing Apple-S (which enters Service Mode) after the error beeps. You should see the screen change rather significantly. If you haven't replaced the foam and foil pads inside your keyboard yet, then it is very unlikely to work until you do that.

Congrats on the excellent progress!

Quote from: AlexTheCat123 on October 06, 2026, 04:42:16 PMTo test the keyboard, try pressing Apple-S (which enters Service Mode) after the error beeps. You should see the screen change rather significantly. If you haven't replaced the foam and foil pads inside your keyboard yet, then it is very unlikely to work until you do that.

Keyboard: I tried that and yes it works, I saw a white screen (can't read it, but it changed), as I have already bought the capacitor foils and repaired the keyboard.

CRT: I turned the pots on the back of the PSU still black screen, and I don't hear the noise a CRT makes when they start up.  I hope to get the capacitors tomorrow or the next day, and I will recap the video board.

UPDATE:  I recapped the Video Board, and reflowed a bunch of the points.

I put it back together and still no internal video.  I don't even hear the CRT at all, and there is no glow.  I there a way to test the Video Board?  I got it of eBay, and when I got the Lisa the CRT was mounted "up-side down", maybe meaning, it's bad. 

Are there any donor CRTs suggestions?  Where would I look (12inch monochrome CRT?)

another option since the external video is working, I could get a 12in LCD and get an RCA to HDMI kit and bypass the CRT Video all together.  (does that cheapen it?)

EDIT:  I could buy the RGBtoHDMI (available from indie builders on Tindie or TexElec).

I'm ready to follow some troubleshooting tests if you point me in the right location.  AI ... well, dealing with CRT high volts, I don't wanna take advice from it for this.

Greetings,
I just performed the crt swap with an Atari SM124.
Works great but you'll need the yoke from your Lisa crt. It is a pretty straightforward swap, assuming your yoke is good, but all the high voltage warnings apply so read and rehearse before you attempt.  Congrats on the work so far.  It's been fun to follow along!

Quote from: mst3k on October 07, 2026, 10:07:12 PMI just performed the crt swap with an Atari SM124.
Works great but you'll need the yoke from your Lisa crt. It is a pretty straightforward swap, assuming your yoke is good, but all the high voltage warnings apply so read and rehearse before you attempt.  Congrats on the work so far.  It's been fun to follow along!

I'm game to try that, but... where do you find that CRT?  I thought of Good Will or Thrift stores, anywhere else?  Of course Facebook and eBay.

Quite a few options on eBay in the $100-150 USD range.

Quote from: mst3k on October 07, 2026, 10:07:12 PMI just performed the crt swap with an Atari SM124
... but all the high voltage warnings apply

Does the Atari's CRT have the same grounding spring as the stock Lisa CRT (at the side of the mounting frame), or does it use the braided wire style of grounding the dag coating?

If the latter, was it difficult to move it over to the Lisa?

Quote from: berskyboy on October 07, 2026, 06:39:54 PMAre there any donor CRTs suggestions?  Where would I look (12inch monochrome CRT?)

Any suggestions for isolating whether the trouble is in the CRT itself, Video Board, Flyback, or wiring? Or perhaps this is too dangerous an expedition for casual discussion?

Quotereflowed a bunch

For future readers:

Because the Lisa was manufactured with tin-lead solder:

• it does not suffer the issues related to early lead-free solder devices.
• wash your hands after handling Lisa circuit boards and, if you must, dispose of them properly. (Better still: offer as parts to other Lisa owners for salvage.)

Reflowing a joint is very rarely a solution for problems in a Lisa, and may hide troubleshooting clues to overheating components and cause substantial damage that makes a repair more difficult. It is much better to track down the specific location/cause of a problem first.

Only reflow a solder joint in a Lisa if it is visibly or measurably suspect. Carefully check the badly soldered component/circuit to see if/why it was overheating and if it needs replacement. Ensure the suspect joint is first desoldered to remove contamination and clean off corrosion that may have contributed to that rare bad joint. Re-make the joint with fresh solder and adequate heat (power pins require a lot of heat in the Lisa). Clean and inspect to ensure no bridges were created and confirm the new joint is good.

Quote from: ried on October 07, 2026, 11:58:32 PMQuite a few options on eBay in the $100-150 USD range.

I picked mine up on eBay for $80 plus shipping and tax.  It was sold as 'untested' (eBay code for not working) but, after a bit of fiddling, worked great.

Quote from: sigma7 on October 08, 2026, 12:23:15 AMDoes the Atari's CRT have the same grounding spring as the stock Lisa CRT (at the side of the mounting frame), or does it use the braided wire style of grounding the dag coating?

If the latter, was it difficult to move it over to the Lisa?

There are different versions of the SM124, mostly case design I think, but the one I got had a large, copper grounding spring that was secured with the lower right mounting screw.  I simply moved it over with the CRT from the SM124 and secured it the same way. 

Also, I'm just curious, have you tried adjusting the brightness with the control pot on the video board?  After convincing myself one of my Lisa's video circuitry was dead, I adjusted the inside pot and found that someone had essentially turned it off.  It's the first pot on the top left of the board.  If you haven't tried it, be careful since the Lisa must be on to see adjustments and you're diving into the danger zone.  I use a plastic screwdriver with a ceramic tip, move real slow, and take my time avoiding the CRT and yoke. Just a thought if you haven't tried it.

When you said 'no glow' I thought you meant at the neck of the CRT, but you have the top on the Lisa so maybe you meant 'no glow' on the face of the CRT?

The first commandment of electronics troubleshooting if I understand correctly is: "thou shalt always check voltages". The CRT heater is really simple: it's wired to +12V and ground and is always on; it's basically a light bulb. If there's no glow at the CRT neck, I would look to see if the +12V supply is working.

The heater supply is the brown wire going to the CRT socket, but I wouldn't take a measurement there as there are some high voltages going to the CRT socket as well. What I'd probably do, based on the schematics here, is solder a flying lead or attach a probe clip to one of the legs of L4, then hook the lead up to a multimeter so that I could take the measurement in a hands-off way.

While preparing for this measurement, I'd probably also check for continuity across L4 and L5. If either of them is open, then there's the heater problem.

But assuming there's continuity: if you have +12V at L4 and no heater glow, then the CRT does start to look fishy. Check continuity across CRT pins 3 and 4 (maybe something to do first, actually). If no continuity, the CRT is bad; replace it. If you have continuity, then maybe the socket has a problem.

Quote from: stepleton on October 08, 2026, 03:49:22 AMCheck continuity across CRT pins 3 and 4 (maybe something to do first, actually). If no continuity, the CRT is bad; replace it. If you have continuity, then maybe the socket has a problem.

So would this be a test on the neck of the CRT

               ( Bare Glass CRT Neck Pins )
               
                      [ GAP ]
                   (1)         (7)
                 (2)             (6)
                  (3)            (5)
                     (4)       [ ]

                      |       |
                      v       v
             [ Red Probe ]   [ Black Probe ]


Also when you connect the Video Board to the CRT what is the orientation?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ek8ymsu1i9ccosf6w0gqt/IMG_3715.jpeg?rlkey=buyr9el2e55oee8u2sezllce6&st=ez8pfxmg&dl=0

what should the space be on the top? or is pin 5 on top?

Quote from: berskyboy on October 08, 2026, 10:16:53 AMAlso when you connect the Video Board to the CRT what is the orientation?

Unless I am missing something you're asking here, the connector from the video board to the CRT neck can only go on one way.