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[compu_85]

Do we think it's safe to assume that the serial numbers for a given day start at 0? If so the 15k estimate just seems super low.

Is the math wrong on the "calculations" tab of the spreadsheet?  It's coming up with just over 11k, with 219 serial numbers tracked.

-J

[pintoguy]

Just seeing this thread now. It's a great initiative, thanks blusnowkitty. I have 3 Lisa's at home, plus another one that I have fixed for a friend. My latest 2/5 (Lisa 1 upgrade) does not have a SN sticker, and is not operational as of now so I can't get into the ROM to find out. But here are the three I know of:

Serial   Applenet   Manuf
A3333115   108163   3333
A3248711   105102   3248
A4248514   106907   4248

PS: I didn't know about the German Tank math problem. Really cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

[compu_85]

Can you note if those are 2/5 or 2/10 models?

-J

[pintoguy]

Certainly:

Type   Serial   Applenet   Manuf
2/5   A3333115   108163   3333
XL   A3248711   105102   3248
2/10   A4248514   106907   4248

[pintoguy]

Do we think it's safe to assume that the serial numbers for a given day start at 0? If so the 15k estimate just seems super low.

Is the math wrong on the "calculations" tab of the spreadsheet?  It's coming up with just over 11k, with 219 serial numbers tracked.

-J

My understanding of the math tells me this is correct (see Wikipedia link I sent). The estimate is slightly higher than the highest Applenet number. And the more SN we get, the closer these two numbers will be

[compu_85]

I added your systems.

I still think there's some other problem with our estimates. Either the serial numbers didn't start with 0001 at the start of the day, or something else...

I'd think the "tank problem" math shouldn't be half of the serial number counts we've found.

I'm working on adding the math for this to the spreadsheet so it will be on the "Calculations" tab.

[compu_85]

Thanks to those that kept adding to the "Incomplete Data" Tab. From the serial numbers I extracted the dates, then from the date & serial numbers I was able to calculate the AppleNets where there are other tracked systems from the same day. That added another 14 systems, up to 237 AppleNets tracked.

One of these, A4192128 was from the 192nd day in 84, when at least 701 Lisas were made (including one of mine!). Another was on the 187th day of 1984, when at least 853 were made! On the 157th day of 84, we have the serial number of the 2nd machine off the line, A4157002.

I also calculated the build date / sn from some of the disk image serial numbers - I felt it was safe to do this when the AppleNet was only a couple away. I added notes on any row where I calculated numbers.

I think there are a lot more AppleNet collisions than we realize.

Looking at the sheet, sorted by AppleNet, noice how the dates jump around. We have enough systems now that duplicates stand out. For example, AppleNet 106423. This AppleNet would've been used on date 4171 at the A factory, and also on date 4233 at the A factory. The Serial Number A4171064 would have a conflicting AppleNet with a machine at the System Source museum in MD, A4233316.

I'd say they were just "filling in" skipped over AppleNets, but the sequence matches on both sides.

-J

[snuci]

Sorry, I didn't know this was a  serial number thread.

Here is mine.  Note, my Lisa 1 does not have a serial number label.  I think I translated this properly from the Service Mode screen.

B08B802020166
00100175
82020
1/5

B08B830760128
00100302
83076
2/5

B08B832310268
00103629
83231
2/5

A4156246
00103200
4156
2/10

A4158473
00104473
4158
2/10

A4300179
00107381
4300
2/20? (has the Sun Rem  20 MB hard drive)

[blusnowkitty]

A4300179
00107381
4300
2/20? (has the Sun Rem  20 MB hard drive)

By that point they probably would have been sold as Macintosh XLs, which were just 2/10s.

[pintoguy]

I'd think the "tank problem" math shouldn't be half of the serial number counts we've found.

Right now, the estimate (tank problem) is a little over 11.6k, for ~237 counts, so not half. Or am I missing something ?  Also, I think there is a small mistake in cell C2 of the Calculation sheet (lowest Applenet number). It should be 25 and not 576. And by the way, the number we add to the highest Applenet number (C3/C4-1=46) for the estimate is not too different from this lowest Applenet number (25), which confirms we're not too far off.

[snuci]

By that point they probably would have been sold as Macintosh XLs, which were just 2/10s.

I agree.  Just noting it in case different configs were being noted in the spreadsheet.

On another note, I think the first record on line 2 was gathered via the method on this post: https://www.applefritter.com/content/apple-lisa-serial-number-info

I tried to figure out the serial number on my top Lisa because it didn't have a serial number sticker using this method and I got vastly different info than what compu85 figured out with my "Service Mode" screen output.

[compu_85]

I was looking at the same post.

Code: [Select]

0F0F 0002 0802 0002 0000 0106 0600 0F0F
FF 02 82 02 00 16 60 FF
XX PP YY DD DS SS SX XX
02 82 020 166
B08B820200166

I realized I made an error in this earlier, and fixed it 

-J

[compu_85]

I added a bit more math on the Calculations tab.

We are tracking the "Serial Number Space" of 28,845 machines. This isn't an estimate of total machines, it's just a total of the highest serial number observed per day thus far.

Also note we have a number of conflicts in AppleNet numbers. IMHO this means the "tank problem" math we had been doing just won't work

As these systems have increased in value, I find it's been nice to have recorded historical data about when the machines were first seen, what equipment they had at the time, etc.

Happy 2024!

-J

[compu_85]

BTW, I added columns for the Model No and Memory Option. Here's what I've noticed:

Model A6SB100 - Lisa 1. Memory A6SB104 must've been 1/2mb? A6SB108 is on a red sticker.
Model A6SB100P - Euro Lisa 1? Memory A6SB108.
Model A6S0200 - Lisa 2/10. Memory A6S0204.
Model A6S0200P - Euro 2/10?
Model A6S0300 - Lisa 2/5. Memory A6S0304.

If our non-US members could chime in and let us know if their Model Numbers end in P I'd appreciate it!

Thanks,

-J

[compu_85]

Here's something a bit interesting: A graph of the Lisas we've observed and their build date.

The green circle is the start of normal production. Yellow is the first observed 2/10, and red is the first observed 2/5 model A6S0300.