Nasty messages

> rather then respond item by item to that barrage of
> gibberish, moron, remember what prompted your original
> response - I had said it was unfortunate that Apple
> didn't build the MACINTOSH with a crt controller. Then
> you went on to eat up unnecessary bandwidth with a
> reply that meant next to nothing. And I responded
> with, well, could a MACINTOSH w/o a crt controller do
> this? No one is running down the Mac or the Lisa, yes
> each has it's own merits. But my premise was the
> MACINTOSH couldn't accomplish anything close due to
> the lack of dedicated video hardware. Go back and read
> the original post big man. And in the future don't
> lose it just because someone shows you up.
>
> --- Ray Arachelian <ray_at_email.domain.hidden> wrote:
>
>> Eh? Somehow I think you're being a troll.
>>
>> I'm not sure how converting a modern MPG, which was
>> not available back
>> in 1982, into a bunch of 80x25 or 40x25 color
>> attributes and requiring a
>> sound blaster card, which did not exist at the time
>> of the introduction
>> of the PC somehow proves that one system is better
>> than another.
>> Especially since it was never meant to, or actually
>> used in this way.
>>
>> Yes, it's very cool, but, um, so what? Each system
>> has its own
>> technical merits, and it's own market, and each had
>> both their own
>> successes and failures.
>>
>> What I mean by 2K or 4K of bandwidth is this. The
>> stuff you see on that
>> display is not in hires or even lowres graphics. In
>> fact, it is just
>> tweaking of the color attributes, which are, as
>> expected 80x25.
>> 80*25=2000 bytes. aka 2K. Now that display
>> actually had 4K of memory
>> in that mode. 2K was used for color information,
>> broken up into
>> nibbles, that is 4 bits for the foreground color,
>> and 4 bits for the
>> background color.
>>
>> Even that's a rather generous assumption. You could
>> go into 40x25 mode,
>> and write only to the background color, so in that
>> case you're writing
>> to 1000 bytes, of which you only use half a byte for
>> the 16 color
>> background - so effectively it would by 500 bytes,
>> though you really do
>> have to write to all 1000 in 40x25 or all 2000 in
>> 80x25. This is what I
>> mean about it being the size of two icons. You're
>> getting excited over
>> a movie displayed in less screen real estate than an
>> icon on a modern
>> display.
>>
>> So, yes, the total bandwidth to display a movie in
>> this way on an IBM PC
>> is well within it's capability, and while impressive
>> on the surface,
>> it's still within the limits of an 8 bit 4.77MHz
>> 8088.
>>
>> Indeed, I do have to wonder what decade we're
>> comparing here. MPG video
>> did not exist in 1982, and yes, when I say
>> 720x364x2, I am talking about
>> the Lisa and not the Mac. Incase you've not
>> noticed, this forum is
>> called "Lisa List." Not "The Original Mac 128
>> List." That 720x364x2
>> took up 32K of RAM vs at most 2K on the PC. Big
>> difference in bandwidth
>> there. It's certainly not possible to capture that
>> video on a PC of
>> that era and pre-process it into the format needed
>> to display it back.
>> So to play back a movie on a Lisa, you'd need to
>> push 32KBytes 30 times
>> a second. To play back this demo, you need to push
>> 2Kbytes 30 times a
>> second - a lot easier to do.
>>
>> While I could get either an IBM PC 5150 with a CGA
>> card, and color
>> monitor, or a Mac 128 for the $2.5K you mention,
>> these are two different
>> products, in two different markets that have very
>> little to do with each
>> other, other than both being personal computers from
>> the 1980's. The PC
>> was what, 1982, the Mac was 1984. The Lisa, which
>> is what this forum's
>> topic is about, is far closer to a mini-computer,
>> and was actually built
>> by folks who previously worked on mini's. I'd say
>> it was a workstation,
>> though that word wasn't used at the time.
>>
>> I'm sure that if you were to challenge someone from
>> the demo scene,
>> you'll find they could come up with a dazzling demo
>> that would run on a
>> stock Lisa 2 and be as impressive, if not more so.
>> Ditto for the
>> original Mac 128 - oh wait, it was already done, and
>> it talked too as
>> Larry Rosenstein already pointed out here:
>>
> <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Intro_Demo.txt>
>>
>> Which system is better? Depends on what you want to
>> do and for how
>> much. Should the PC have had a display controller
>> based on character
>> generation and attributes? What about the Apple II,
>> the Commodores, et
>> al? Sure. Should the Lisa and the Mac? Hell no -
>> it was designed on
>> purpose to always use bit mapped graphics in order
>> to produce paper
>> documents. Different markets, different price
>> points, different
>> technologies, different reasons for their own
>> designs. That would be
>> comparing apples, eh, to um, oranges.
>>
>> Each system has both their good and bad points, each
>> has their technical
>> merits, and each has their niche. They are all as
>> wonderful as you can
>> find reasons to use them. An icon sized movie does
>> not make one overall
>> system better or worse, nor does it say that all
>> systems should use
>> character generator based controllers.
>>
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