> Eh? Somehow I think you're being a troll.
>
> I'm not sure how converting a modern MPG, which was
> not available back
> in 1982, into a bunch of 80x25 or 40x25 color
> attributes and requiring a
> sound blaster card, which did not exist at the time
> of the introduction
> of the PC somehow proves that one system is better
> than another.
> Especially since it was never meant to, or actually
> used in this way.
>
> Yes, it's very cool, but, um, so what? Each system
> has its own
> technical merits, and it's own market, and each had
> both their own
> successes and failures.
>
> What I mean by 2K or 4K of bandwidth is this. The
> stuff you see on that
> display is not in hires or even lowres graphics. In
> fact, it is just
> tweaking of the color attributes, which are, as
> expected 80x25.
> 80*25=2000 bytes. aka 2K. Now that display
> actually had 4K of memory
> in that mode. 2K was used for color information,
> broken up into
> nibbles, that is 4 bits for the foreground color,
> and 4 bits for the
> background color.
>
> Even that's a rather generous assumption. You could
> go into 40x25 mode,
> and write only to the background color, so in that
> case you're writing
> to 1000 bytes, of which you only use half a byte for
> the 16 color
> background - so effectively it would by 500 bytes,
> though you really do
> have to write to all 1000 in 40x25 or all 2000 in
> 80x25. This is what I
> mean about it being the size of two icons. You're
> getting excited over
> a movie displayed in less screen real estate than an
> icon on a modern
> display.
>
> So, yes, the total bandwidth to display a movie in
> this way on an IBM PC
> is well within it's capability, and while impressive
> on the surface,
> it's still within the limits of an 8 bit 4.77MHz
> 8088.
>
> Indeed, I do have to wonder what decade we're
> comparing here. MPG video
> did not exist in 1982, and yes, when I say
> 720x364x2, I am talking about
> the Lisa and not the Mac. Incase you've not
> noticed, this forum is
> called "Lisa List." Not "The Original Mac 128
> List." That 720x364x2
> took up 32K of RAM vs at most 2K on the PC. Big
> difference in bandwidth
> there. It's certainly not possible to capture that
> video on a PC of
> that era and pre-process it into the format needed
> to display it back.
> So to play back a movie on a Lisa, you'd need to
> push 32KBytes 30 times
> a second. To play back this demo, you need to push
> 2Kbytes 30 times a
> second - a lot easier to do.
>
> While I could get either an IBM PC 5150 with a CGA
> card, and color
> monitor, or a Mac 128 for the $2.5K you mention,
> these are two different
> products, in two different markets that have very
> little to do with each
> other, other than both being personal computers from
> the 1980's. The PC
> was what, 1982, the Mac was 1984. The Lisa, which
> is what this forum's
> topic is about, is far closer to a mini-computer,
> and was actually built
> by folks who previously worked on mini's. I'd say
> it was a workstation,
> though that word wasn't used at the time.
>
> I'm sure that if you were to challenge someone from
> the demo scene,
> you'll find they could come up with a dazzling demo
> that would run on a
> stock Lisa 2 and be as impressive, if not more so.
> Ditto for the
> original Mac 128 - oh wait, it was already done, and
> it talked too as
> Larry Rosenstein already pointed out here:
>
<http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Intro_Demo.txt>
>
> Which system is better? Depends on what you want to
> do and for how
> much. Should the PC have had a display controller
> based on character
> generation and attributes? What about the Apple II,
> the Commodores, et
> al? Sure. Should the Lisa and the Mac? Hell no -
> it was designed on
> purpose to always use bit mapped graphics in order
> to produce paper
> documents. Different markets, different price
> points, different
> technologies, different reasons for their own
> designs. That would be
> comparing apples, eh, to um, oranges.
>
> Each system has both their good and bad points, each
> has their technical
> merits, and each has their niche. They are all as
> wonderful as you can
> find reasons to use them. An icon sized movie does
> not make one overall
> system better or worse, nor does it say that all
> systems should use
> character generator based controllers.
>
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