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Author Topic: ESCC Replacement  (Read 441 times)

bmwcyclist

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ESCC Replacement
« on: October 07, 2025, 02:03:58 pm »

In the MW readme it mentions upgrading the ESCC for better LocalTalk performance.

I have a Vintage Macros PFG daugherboard installed, Does this have the better ESCC?

I plan on using localTalk so can someone please educate me on this process?

Thanks!!!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2025, 02:10:29 pm by bmwcyclist »
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Lisa2

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2025, 03:56:48 pm »

The MW+II PFG does not come with an ESCC.  Normally you remove the SCC from your IO board and install it on the PFG, then install the PFG in the SCC socket.

Initially, replacing the SCC with an ESCC was required if you are running System 7.5 with MW+II.  This requirement was removed in later revisions.   

Over the years I have done much experimenting with the ESCC, and for me on my systems and network I did not see much benefit using the ESCC over the stock SCC, and is some cases the performance I had observed was worse using the ESCC. 

Your mileage may vary.

If someone here wants a ESCC chip, I will trade a working ESCC for a working Intel 8087 FPU.  PM Me.

RicK
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bmwcyclist

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2025, 04:32:20 pm »

Thanks!
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bmwcyclist

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2025, 04:42:20 pm »

Is that the FPU that the XLerator uses?

Is the ESCC Lisa specific or off the shelf?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2025, 04:45:22 pm by bmwcyclist »
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sigma7

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2025, 06:27:47 pm »

Is that the FPU that the XLerator uses?

Is the ESCC Lisa specific or off the shelf?

The FPU used by the original 16 MHz XLerator is the MC68881RC16 or MC68882RC16. These are currently available as new-old-stock from Rochester electronics https://www.rocelec.com
Note that the FPU DOES NOT improve XLerator performance except in very specific circumstances, so they are generally not worth the price.

The 85230 ESCC in the DIP package is a generic part (not Lisa specific).

The 85230 ESCC differs from the 8530 SCC in mostly subtle ways; the feature that can make a difference in a performance-limited situation (such as a stock Lisa) is that the FIFO buffer is 5 characters vs 3 characters.

The peer-to-peer file server feature that arrived in System 7 requires more performance than the LocalTalk client. With the stock SCC, a 5 MHz Lisa does not have sufficient performance to be a LocalTalk file server (but can act as a client as it does with System 6).

When developing MW+II it seemed that the ESCC helped to improve the reliability of LocalTalk in a stock Lisa, hence the mention in the documentation.

However, from out-in-the-wild reports in the years since then, it isn't clear in what circumstances the ESCC affects LocalTalk -- the suspicion is that it is dependent on the specific devices on the network.

The most dramatic improvement in LocalTalk comes from better CPU performance, eg. an XLerator (or perhaps one day an FPGA-Lisa). With an accelerator, it appears the SCC is always sufficient.

Note that the E/SCC does not affect the use of Ethernet, which is often a better method of networking under MW+II.
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Lisa2

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2025, 10:41:44 pm »

Is that the FPU that the XLerator uses?

Is the ESCC Lisa specific or off the shelf?

No, the 8087 FPU is for a IBM PC.  ::)

Agan, If someone here wants a ESCC chip, I will trade a working ESCC for a working Intel 8087 FPU. 
PM Me.

Rick
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bmwcyclist

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2025, 10:49:30 pm »


Note that the E/SCC does not affect the use of Ethernet, which is often a better method of networking under MW+II.

How would you connect lisa to Ethernet?

Other than a wireless connection through blue SCSI or serial local talk connection I haven't seen anything.
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ried

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 12:05:21 am »


Note that the E/SCC does not affect the use of Ethernet, which is often a better method of networking under MW+II.

How would you connect lisa to Ethernet?

Other than a wireless connection through blue SCSI or serial local talk connection I haven't seen anything.

There are a few SCSI Ethernet adapters that work, namely:

  • Asante Mini EN/SC (ethernet adapter)
  • Farallon EtherMac (ethernet adapter)
  • DaynaPORT SCSI/Link-T (ethernet adapter)
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bmwcyclist

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 07:15:40 am »

Are they serial port to SCSI?
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ried

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Re: ESCC Replacement
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 11:12:17 am »

No, they work through the SCSI port provided by your XLerator or Sun SCSI card.
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