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[fri0701]

Hi everyone,
I recently purchased the copy of Art Department (the 3rd-party LisaDraw clipart package) that was for sale on eBay. I've scanned everything included, and I've uploaded it all to an archive.org project here: https://archive.org/details/apple-lisa-art-department/

I don't own a Lisa with Twiggy drives, but I'm hoping to be able to meet up with someone post-pandemic who can help me dump the included disk.

@blusnowkitty - you may be interested to know that in the manual I received, a reference is made to the clipart being on "One 5 1/4-inch diskette or two 3 1/2-inch microdiskettes (Parts A and B)", so it does seem like this clipart package did make it onto the Lisa 2. The hunt continues...

Things included in the archive:
- scans of the case (I apologize for the streaking - the outer graphics are sealed in a warped plastic "envelope")
- scans of the included disk and sleeve
- a PDF scan of the manual
- scans of the clipart index. These fold-out cards were included so the user could put them in their LisaDraw binder and reference the available clipart. They are pretty long, so I scanned them in pieces and put them together digitally to visualize what they look like when laid out flat.

[rayarachelian]

Many thanks @fri0701! This is awesome!

[blusnowkitty]

Cool, I've updated Art Department's entry on the list. Thanks!

[stepleton]

Note the Lisa image on page 8/13, under "Equipment"
https://archive.org/details/apple-lisa-art-department/Office.jpg

Look familiar? The clue for me is the screen image generically showing us some "Presentation Graphics". That's the image that's on the front of all of David T. Craig's collected documents.

@fri0701: as time and conditions allow, I'm always happy to try and recover Twiggy disk data. The disks have to make it to London somehow. Whether I'm a good option for you or not, how do the disks look --- is the media surface in good condition, or is it mouldy or degraded?

Thanks for scanning these!

[fri0701]

@stepleton - I appreciate your offer, but I'm in the US and would prefer to avoid shipping internationally. To be honest, I'd prefer to avoid shipping *altogether*, but we'll see how that works out.
I don't notice anything odd about the media surface - it all looks to be in pretty good condition.

[blusnowkitty]

@blusnowkitty - you may be interested to know that in the manual I received, a reference is made to the clipart being on "One 5 1/4-inch diskette or two 3 1/2-inch microdiskettes (Parts A and B)", so it does seem like this clipart package did make it onto the Lisa 2. The hunt continues...

Just found a copy of Art Department for the Lisa 2 over here as part of this package deal: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Lisa-2-10-w-keyboard-mouse-software-manuals-books-and-extras/393235786106

Seller won't split anything up unfortunately.

[rayarachelian]

Just found a copy of Art Department for the Lisa 2 over here as part of this package deal: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Lisa-2-10-w-keyboard-mouse-software-manuals-books-and-extras/393235786106

Seller won't split anything up unfortunately.

That Lisa's a bit overpriced, but going by ebay prices a full set of the LOS manuals + disks is somewhere between $300-$500, but the disk folder's spine is ripped at the top and the labels are getting eaten off by the glue - not sure what the value of Art Department is. That older Owner's Guide is worth maybe $150.
Not sure about MacWorks, but it's not MacWorks II+ so not quite all that much. Maybe another $150?
Not sure how much the keyboard shortcuts are worth, though I don't see the full set in the photos, just one. There should be 3.
That's a Lisa 1 mouse, which is worth $500-$900 in ebay prices.
The good news is that this is a 2/10 so it won't have the leak issue, though I really question $3.5K for a dead Lisa. The odds of the Widget working are low.
The odds of the power supply being repairable by recapping is high, but still annoying.
The keyboard would be worth $200-$300 (if it was fully rebuilt with all the keys working.)
The missing apple logo on the faceplate is not great, would cost you $100-$200 for a new faceplate.
It's also missing the front feet, those could be replaced with non-authentic ones for a couple of bucks.
But who knows if something else is terribly wrong, like maybe the analog board.

So it's not a terrible deal, but it's certainly not a good one either. It might be worth buying, fixing, and reselling, but for $3.5K? That's a bit of a stretch there.
Yes, I see there's a crazy person who's listed a Lisa 2 for $9K. Not sure about the math on that one, but it's not from this reality.

[rayarachelian]

Looks like that Lisa with the 3.5" Art Dept. floppies is being sold by MJ Posner, and he's lowered the price to a more reasonable value. Looking again at the description of all the included stuff, I think it's worth getting if anyone here is looking for a good chunk of Lisa items. (So I'm adding a reply to update my original assessment from above.)

Just be sure you're able to do the soldering needed to recapping the power supply. (That's not actually hard since it's all through-hole.) Likely a full set of capacitors would be under $50 and would take an hour or two depending on your soldering skills.

It may be possible the Widget is completely toast, he mentions a connector failure, but it could be much worse. Sadly Widgets aren't always easy to fix or as reliable as ProFiles.
It could be as simple as blowing the dust out of it and cleaning the edge connectors, or reseating the large square chip in its socket (which is known to gather dirt under it), or freeing the spindle motor by hand, or fixing the gap in the clamp brake, which are very easy fixes.  Or it could be needing to replace some of the boards on the Widget, or catastrophically, the optical track sensor has fallen off internally. So that's an unknown.

Most likely, unless you're trying to recover whatever data may be on that Widget (which I'd encourage you to do - never know what goodies you'll find not on the included floppies), you're better off with an Aphid/X/ProFile/IDE:File, (and a FloppyEmu with the switch option.) So factor in that you'd likely spend another $100-$500 to make this Lisa fly.

But all the included original items (manuals, disks, etc. keyboard with pull out cheat-sheets, Lisa 1 Mouse, ) make it worth it, and especially since this is a 2/10 and not a 2/5, there's no leaky NiCADs to have caused huge damage to the I/O board, so it's probably a decent price for all the included extras.

I already have 4 Lisas (all of them needing some repairs, mostly to the analog boards and all but two needing power supply recapping) and am paying off my toy budget credit card, so not going to buy this myself, but in case someone here wants a 2nd Lisa or even first Lisa, it's not a bad choice.

[DAVID CRAIG]

Ray wrote about LISAPAINT being a Lisa program he would like too see. Me too.

I believe LisaPaint was called LisaSketch when BILL ATKINSON wrote this on the Lisa as a testbed for his QUICKDRAW graphics packet. I don't know if SKTECH evolved into PAINT, but suspect it was mostly re-written for the Macintosh.

Suggest contacting BILL ATKINSON and seeing if he could find and ask Apple to release LISASKETCH source. See attached CHM interview.

~ David Craig
~ Cochiti Lake, New Mexico, USA
~ dtc.bayern [at] gmail.com

[blusnowkitty]

Somewhat exciting news tonight. While searching for more serial numbers, I came across a listing for what I think is a 2/10 that was loaded with the BPI Systems General Accounting package that was briefly mentioned in the 1984 sales binder.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/apple-lisa-powers-software-1947564050

ETA: XENIX 2.3 for Lisa 1 has also been found. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1983-apple-computer-xenix-lisa-1-1903057713

[rayarachelian]

So, there's a new Art Department listing on 3.5" disks on ebay here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384444956314

I tried to make an offer for this, but got back "Sorry, the seller is not accepting bids or offers from you at this time. This may occur for various reasons. For example, the seller might have a limit for the amount of items that can be purchased within a given time."

Not sure if the seller doesn't like my specific account, or if they're not accepting Make an Offer. The price is quite high for "just a bunch of clip art."
...Edit: and... it sold for $235. Hope whoever got it will preserve the disk images once they receive it.

[blusnowkitty]

Hope whoever got it will preserve the disk images once they receive it.

Check the Files subforum

I'd show it in action but while I was installing my Lisa decided to have a cascading disk failure that trashed the filesystem on both of my real Profiles and my X/Profile. Welp. All the file contents do appear to be on the disks, though.

[rayarachelian]

Check the Files subforum

Well done, thank you for this. Much appreciate. While not something of personal interest to me, totally would want this archived and saved for posterity.

I'd show it in action but while I was installing my Lisa decided to have a cascading disk failure that trashed the filesystem on both of my real Profiles and my X/Profile. Welp. All the file contents do appear to be on the disks, though.

Ouch! Sorry to hear, hope you've got backups or can recover. Hope your Lisa and her drives are ok.

Please let me know if you need help scanning the manuals.

[blusnowkitty]

Ouch! Sorry to hear, hope you've got backups or can recover. Hope your Lisa and her drives are ok.

Well I don't really care about the data that was on the disks, most of the stuff was just me screwing around with the Office System. Unfortunately I think the best thing to do is retire the Profile disks; one of them keeps trying to seek out past the final sector on the disk and crashing into the head stop, and the other probably needs to be LLFed but won't even come ready with the LLF ROM installed. With the normal Profile Z8 installed it tries to do the startup seek but it takes around 30 seconds per sector before it advances which sounds like it's having some severe read issues to me.

[andrew]

I'd also love to see LisaPaint/LisaSketch/SketchPad. I love doodling in MacPaint and it would be a joy to be able to do similar drawings on my Lisa.

Then again, after taking another look at the page on Folklore (https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=MacPaint_Evolution.txt) it seems like many of the more interesting features of MacPaint were developed well after Bill had switched to Macintosh development. I wonder how much of a technical challenge it would be to port MacPaint back to the Lisa. The source code is out there, after all, but certain parts of the original code were moved to the Macintosh ROM so I'm guessing the whole thing would be a nontrivial undertaking.

Regardless, a barebones version of LisaPaint would be better than nothing!